Is this a KM decal? German wwii m-35 with zimmerit paste?

**relicz** · 10-30-2012, 01:54 AM

Both have similar paint, But neither has a zimmerit coat! Believe what you choose and worship at the altar of your choice, I'm done.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-30-2012 01:54 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Sir Payne** · 10-30-2012, 02:20 AM

by relicz

But neither has a zimmerit coat!

Like I have said what seems like a million times, please elaborate on this claim. I want to know why I am wrong, and why Mr. Shea's assessment on his helmet is wrong. If you know why these are not Zimmerit painted helmets please share it with us.

Moderators, I am not trying to start something here. I just want to have a legitimate debate on these helmets.

Regards,
Corey

**mclenrd** · 10-30-2012, 03:30 AM

Corey, not too cocky kid... Whilst we probably appreciate your tenacity, you don't have much experience in this field yet. Bill Shea personally taught me a lot of things long before you were born. You should find (if you can) and get a copy of "History of The German Steel Helmet" by Ludwig Baer... read it and become better informed on German helmets. Ken Niewiarowicz's book is great too. He's the major German helmet dealer. Anyway, If more than one person is telling you this... then it should tell you something. Listen and learn.

@Mclenrd. You can say what they want about Bill Shea, and the helmet on his site, but I trust his opinion more so than the opinion of the majority of members of this forum. I agree his prices are high, as are those of every other major helmet dealer, but that only is an opinion that supports what I said before, which is...that a dealer's value of this helmet (if it is Zimmerit, which I think it is) would be around $2000 or more.

Regards,
Corey

**Sir Payne** · 10-30-2012, 04:05 AM

Mclenrd,

If you disagree with my opinion then please, for the respect of this forum and its members, attack my argument not me personally. Ad hominem attacks such as this are distasteful and somewhat offensive.

Regards,
Corey

**asterperious** · 10-30-2012, 04:07 AM

In all fairness to Corey, I don't think he is being argumentative he is probing for more considered answers than "go buy X's book whippersnapper" {just because it is in a book it doesn't automatically make it true} . I also don't always place a lot of stock on 'consensus' without knowing peoples credentials and basis for claims of expertise. Peer review is important, but on forums a lot of agreement is often just an effort to be accepted by the ruling clique as an equal - Remember a consensus of experts condemed Galileo for asserting the Earth orbited the Sun.

Without running spectrographic analysis on a sample of the mystery substance it is all conjecture and unresolvable. It is not implausible that it is anti-magnetic coating, it would not be that heavy on a helmet, only a few brush strokes in reality. Any army armoured unit in the field decorating a tank could very well do up some helmets. Refurbishing usually took place at forward base areas by engineers and labour corps types, versus a factory which would involve extensive transport in the wrong direction.

However, I think sand or sawdust is more probable as it was easily availble. While not as extensively employed in WW 2, sand and sawdust was extensively applied in the factory and in the field in WW I by Allied forces, examples here showing similar flaking and loss http://www.militaryantiques.co.uk/sh...4&jump=3&sess=

Most dealers tend to cater to the 'tastes' of their clients and many bona fide items get dismissed and many fraudulent items get celebrated because their form/style or mystique is in demand.

Anyway my $0.02

**mclenrd** · 10-30-2012, 04:08 AM

Agreed, but Corey's probing is obviously not perceived as such and perception is reality. I'm not going to be told, by a kid, I'm wrong especially when I have a lifetime of collecting experience on him. I echo relicz comment.... "Believe what you choose and worship at the altar of your choice, I'm done."

**DougB** · 10-30-2012, 04:39 AM

Gentlemen lets keep the discussion civil and on topic. To me the eminent "zimmerit" person is Gulli and he doesn't frequent public fora anymore, but a search on GHW you will find his opinion which I personally value above all others on the topic.

As for Corey being a kid, sometimes fresh thinking and a fresh look can replace older mistaken thoughts. As for old collectors, experience is a dish served raw, they've learned from past mistakes. In other words, all opinions can be valued, if a conversation occurs where both respect and listen to the other. I would encourage that here.

Cheers
Doug

**Nathan362** · 10-30-2012, 04:57 AM

Im gonna stay out of the mess here... I really like that helmet!

**davejb** · 10-30-2012, 05:24 AM

I read with interest the whole comments regarding the application of "Zimmerit", in my opinion these helmets are not covered with it , instead a thick paint with sand added, the reasons for my comments are as follows, nearly if not all armoured vehicles that had Zimmerit applied were done at factorys, the paste took two to three days to dry by heating, once dry it became a hardened covering and very durable, in other words did'nt easily flake off as is witnessed by existing examples in various collections, the paste itself was of a very thick consistancy and not the thin coating seen on these helmets, it also didnt have the appearance of a rough sand, instead it was more like a gravel effect, because of the length of time for Zimmerit to dry it was rarely if at all applied in the field to any vehicles already in combat, it was later discontinued because vehicles were required in the field more urgently and a two to three day drying time was considered too long