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M16 Austrian type civilian helmet? Not a "Himmler" interwar? Info needed

Article about: I picked this helmet up in a two-helmet lot back in February. It's a bit of a mystery. People have told me it is a "Himmler" interwar. People have said it is an Austrian M16 style

  1. #1

    Default M16 Austrian type civilian helmet? Not a "Himmler" interwar? Info needed

    I picked this helmet up in a two-helmet lot back in February. It's a bit of a mystery. People have told me it is a "Himmler" interwar. People have said it is an Austrian M16 style civilian helmet. One person said this sort of helmet was used for Herman Goerring's police, or the SA. Other people say it's Luftschutz. Some have said the lugs were knocked off. Another person said it never had lugs, that it had vent screens which are now missing. The liner does have the leather tabs for a rain hood, and some people have said this means it's a feuerwehr helmet, but I have a double-decal Police M34 helmet that also has the tabs, so I'm not sure they are indicative. The person who ID'd the helmet as Austrian M16 interwar civilian didn't pay attention to the leather tabs at all. But I'm no expert, so I'm asking here.

    So, what is this thing?


    Here is what I know:


    * Helmet is original to itself
    * Paint is a very dark green - the pictures make it look blue but it is a very dark green, not blue
    * three-pad liner attached to a leather band
    * only marking is 66 on one tongue of the liner
    * no decals, or signs there ever were any

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    Here is another photo set I found here of a similar helmet:

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  3. #2

    Default

    It is an interwar commercially produced "Himmler Helmet", so called because Himmler is often seen in pictures wearing the combat weight version of this style shell, which had WWI style vent lugs. This one is probably a lighter gauge steel, and originally had screen vents instead of the frankenstein lugs. With the neck flap tabs on the liner it was probably a fire police helmet. This style shell was used by the Luftschutz, police and fire police units, factory police, etc.

  4. #3

    Default

    Quote by helmet2id View Post
    It is an interwar commercially produced "Himmler Helmet", so called because Himmler is often seen in pictures wearing the combat weight version of this style shell, which had WWI style vent lugs. This one is probably a lighter gauge steel, and originally had screen vents instead of the frankenstein lugs. With the neck flap tabs on the liner it was probably a fire police helmet. This style shell was used by the Luftschutz, police and fire police units, factory police, etc.
    The metal is the same grade / thickness as a standard WW1 combat helmet, possibly a bit thicker even. I assumed at first that it was a weird combat helmet where the lugs had been removed. Doing some of my own research I thought it was a Himmler at first, too, but Jacob Caputo of Alexandre & Sons said this, yesterday:


    "What you have is actually not a true "Himmler helmet" always it looks pretty similar to one. This type of helmet is known as an Austrian style M16. It is one of the many commercially produced helmets from the 1930s. These helmets were worn by the Hermann Goring police, the SA and a few other organizations. The helmet never had lugs. It had screen vents where the holes are. They probably lot at some point. From what I can tell your helmet is original. I do not think it was used by the Fire department. That color makes me think one of the German police organizations."

  5. #4
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    Default

    Thanks this thread just answered my questions on this.

    Being new to this I was thinking the higher strap rivets might mean it was a messed with Berndorf, but this post saved me.

    Any comments on the Moon motif?

    Regards

    Steve
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #5

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    I know the brown helmet with the moon, but I have no idea, what it is???



    In a lot of helmets (in this shape) you can find the civil version of the m27 liner. I have a green and a black "Himmler" helmet with this liner type and both have an ink stamp. Bath & Wagawa - Metallwarenfabrik- Dresden.

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    In the paper newspaper advertising you can read, Bath & Wagawa sold helmets in black and also different colors and for Luftschutz and Fire fighter.

    I think, Bath & Wagawa produced these helmets and also the gladiator model (RL2-39/2).
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    Here are some examples in different colors and the newspapers advertising.

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    Kind regards
    Basti

  7. #6

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    Quote by Rabaul View Post
    Thanks this thread just answered my questions on this.

    Being new to this I was thinking the higher strap rivets might mean it was a messed with Berndorf, but this post saved me.

    Any comments on the Moon motif?

    Regards

    Steve
    I've never seen that, but thank you so much for posting your helmet! Can I get a better / bigger shot of the vents? I'm still looking to replace mine, which are missing.

  8. #7
    ?

    Default

    Quote by wss1939 View Post
    I've never seen that, but thank you so much for posting your helmet! Can I get a better / bigger shot of the vents? I'm still looking to replace mine, which are missing.
    Sorry, I didn't buy it because of this thread. Love to have it, but for finacial and space reasons I have to have some self imposed limits on what I collect.

    As I said as it has high strap rivets I thought it might be a late WWI Berndorf, now I know better.

    Regards

    Steve

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