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M35 DD SE 64 Heer Overpaint - with some history

Article about: This helmet arrived in the mail today. Purchased it from a member here who picked it out of the woodwork. A big thanks to FNG. Want to have a bit of fun on this one but we will get to that i

  1. #31

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    Hello Michael,
    Well i was getting there ........ slowly but I never knew about the size stamping ( I need to get back into my books, eh? ) so that's interesting!

    My old grandfather said "better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt" .... glad I never listened to him

    Anyway I have a couple more thoughts if I may?

    1) I am still amazed that a non-reinforced alloy band that was being doubled in strength at the sides from 1937 survived so long without fracture - and in a combat scenario when it was observed to be a weak point before hostilities broke out! And more to the point that the folded alloy D ring loops are so deformed, yet the band is intact ....

    2) I still postulate that the owner may have been mechanized infantry because a helmet sitting on ones head would not ( IMO ) put as much load on those parts as if it were hanging from something for a time, loading the loops that way.

    3) While it may be evocative and intriguing for us as collectors, for a young GI in his twenties, it is NOT really a "souvenir worthy" helmet compared to a decaled one and may have been brought back as a war trophy from "one that never got away"

    4) lastly, while we will never know, and because of the thin liner band and bail damage IMO it could have not lasted until the wars end but may have been souvenired during the Italian campaign. I say this because if a replacement were available, surely by wars end this would have been exchanged at a depot for a better one rather than bodged up to keep it going?

    PURE SPECULATION I know, but isn't what makes this hobby interesting? ..... what we know and what we don't know.

    Thanks for a very interesting helmet story mate!
    " I used to be indecisive but now I'm not quite sure "

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  3. #32
    MAP
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    Quote by Anderson View Post
    Interesting helmet. As for the field repair, is it a nail or a piece of barb wire adapted?
    Good thought. It's possible it was barbed wire or a general wire, but the gauge looks a bit thicker. I would expect normal barb wire to be more flexible. This is pretty stiff. And if it was barbed wire any coating on it has worn down.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  4. #33
    MAP
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    Quote by Danmark View Post
    Hello Michael,
    Well i was getting there ........ slowly but I never knew about the size stamping ( I need to get back into my books, eh? ) so that's interesting!

    My old grandfather said "better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt" .... glad I never listened to him

    Anyway I have a couple more thoughts if I may?

    1) I am still amazed that a non-reinforced alloy band that was being doubled in strength at the sides from 1937 survived so long without fracture - and in a combat scenario when it was observed to be a weak point before hostilities broke out! And more to the point that the folded alloy D ring loops are so deformed, yet the band is intact ....

    2) I still postulate that the owner may have been mechanized infantry because a helmet sitting on ones head would not ( IMO ) put as much load on those parts as if it were hanging from something for a time, loading the loops that way.

    3) While it may be evocative and intriguing for us as collectors, for a young GI in his twenties, it is NOT really a "souvenir worthy" helmet compared to a decaled one and may have been brought back as a war trophy from "one that never got away"

    4) lastly, while we will never know, and because of the thin liner band and bail damage IMO it could have not lasted until the wars end but may have been souvenired during the Italian campaign. I say this because if a replacement were available, surely by wars end this would have been exchanged at a depot for a better one rather than bodged up to keep it going?

    PURE SPECULATION I know, but isn't what makes this hobby interesting? ..... what we know and what we don't know.

    Thanks for a very interesting helmet story mate!
    A bit more time and you would have gotten there.

    Can't say why it lasted so long and didn't break. But it did. I have a very very nice early M35 with minimal wear and the liner cracked. But I have others, that were certainly worn that didn't.

    As far as why this was put in a Vet duffle back and brought back to the US? I thought the same as well. It's not a sexy looking helmet. Certainly the last one I would pick out of a pile...But maybe the US vet spotted the non dated liner and said...."Hey, this is a keeper, you other guys can take home the camo with chicken wire exposed DD SS helmet" LoL

    Also possible that this was a 43 pick up and something I thought of as well. And even a Panzer Grenadier is possible. Maybe even a DAK (not all were painted Pink!) picked up at the Kasserine Pass. I should shake it a bit and see if any sand falls out! Certainly fun to speculate. Hey, it might even be one of the Semft brothers (I can picture Todd sending me a PM soon)

    Glad you enjoyed it. It certainly has gotten a lot of attention for such a salty helmet!
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  5. #34
    TWS
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    Quote by MAP View Post

    Hey, it might even be one of the Semft brothers (I can picture Todd sending me a PM soon)
    Todd
    Former U.S. Army Tanker.
    "Best job I ever had."

  6. #35

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    Hi Michael,
    You said in the initial post that the lot # could be either 3042 or 5042?

    If so, its more likely the former as going by both Frank's and Brian's records, that would place it into SE's 1936 manufacture and it would have had the non-reinforced band whereas 5042 would put it in 1940 production and it would have had a steel liner ( or at least a reinforced alloy one )

    Cheers, Dan
    " I used to be indecisive but now I'm not quite sure "

  7. #36
    MAP
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    Quote by Danmark View Post
    Hi Michael,
    You said in the initial post that the lot # could be either 3042 or 5042?

    If so, its more likely the former as going by both Frank's and Brian's records, that would place it into SE's 1936 manufacture and it would have had the non-reinforced band whereas 5042 would put it in 1940 production and it would have had a steel liner ( or at least a reinforced alloy one )

    Cheers, Dan
    Correct Dan. I looked at Franks lot database as well. Today in looking closer I am more convinced it is 3042, which as I noted on another forum (but forgot to here) certainly has an impact on the likelihood of the liner being original to the helmet.

    Glad your digging into this as much as me and coming up with the same questions and solutions It's fun stuff.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  8. #37

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    Quote by MAP View Post
    Glad your digging into this as much as me and coming up with the same questions and solutions It's fun stuff.
    Glad to mate - for reasons I don't need to go into, my TR procurement days are over - so these days I maintain what relics I have and experience the rest vicariously through the exploits of others......

    PS ..... say Hi to David for me!
    " I used to be indecisive but now I'm not quite sure "

  9. #38
    MAP
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    Quote by Danmark View Post
    Glad to mate - for reasons I don't need to go into, my TR procurement days are over - so these days I maintain what relics I have and experience the rest vicariously through the exploits of others......

    PS ..... say Hi to David for me!
    Thanks Dan. That's what is great about forums. Seeing so many items and helping out.

    I most certainly pass along your hello to David. Was just chatting with him this morning about...you guessed it...helmets...
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  10. #39

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    Nice helmet, Michael.
    Sadly, I appear to be a little late to the party, the liner band sure has some oddities to it, by the way I really like these early ones.
    I have a 62 size 1931 dated liner band and that one is also different from the norm. Mine has the DRP marking on it already whereas most 1931 dated bands just have the Schuberth factory marking.
    My guess is that they only got the patent later in 31 which is why it initially wasn't stamped on.
    Unfortunately I only have a picture in which you can see the 1931 stamp, but it's marked DRP Schuberth-Werke AG Braunschweig 1931.
    Overall a really cool helmet you have, albeit beaten up, it tells us a lot on what it saw, probably worn by Mr. H.. form pre-war times to some part mid-war who may have then lost it or something and it was repainted and given to Mr. Senft.
    Luis
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture M35 DD SE 64 Heer Overpaint - with some history  

  11. #40
    MAP
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    Quote by PotatoDigger View Post
    Nice helmet, Michael.
    Sadly, I appear to be a little late to the party, the liner band sure has some oddities to it, by the way I really like these early ones.
    I have a 62 size 1931 dated liner band and that one is also different from the norm. Mine has the DRP marking on it already whereas most 1931 dated bands just have the Schuberth factory marking.
    My guess is that they only got the patent later in 31 which is why it initially wasn't stamped on.
    Unfortunately I only have a picture in which you can see the 1931 stamp, but it's marked DRP Schuberth-Werke AG Braunschweig 1931.
    Overall a really cool helmet you have, albeit beaten up, it tells us a lot on what it saw, probably worn by Mr. H.. form pre-war times to some part mid-war who may have then lost it or something and it was repainted and given to Mr. Senft.
    Luis
    Thanks Luis.

    It looks salty but the helmet is surprisingly solid. Loose liner, heavily chipped paint but otherwise completely intact.

    And yes. this liner band does not have the DRP marking and as already noted, certainly it does not have a date. I've looked to see if maybe it was just a light stamping but there is zero trace of this.

    A head scratcher. We can try and guess why but I'm sure we will never know for sure. I'm going with an early test run /production prior to the official approval in later 1931. And with the lot number being 3042 it would put this as a very early shell as well.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

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