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M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

Article about: Ken, thanks for the clarification. Identifying decals good from bad is all part of the learning curve. Don't give up. It's well worth it to learn, and we all make mistakes. Hell, I was carry

  1. #31

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Quote by DougB View Post
    Ken your willing to accept accolades from the forum members here but as soon as Frank suggests its a fake suddenly this forum is useless for opinions and you feel the need to jump to WAF? As a moderator of part of this helmet section I find your strange set of dual purpose motives very self serving. BTW I'd easily consider Frank as one of the "big guns". I'd heed his advice. A WAF membership does not make one a big gun.

    As well, I'm afraid to say your decal is a fake Ken. The claws confirm it. The right middle claw on a BF decal is squiggly, yours is not, and the "big foot" of the BF on yours is easily recognizable as one of the many Q fake decals. Why would someone fake it? Why not and because they can are two good simple reasons.
    Doug,

    Why do you feel attacked by me going and ask the WAF members? I just wanted to go and search for other opinions. Think that's my right as a member of this forum as well as a member of the WAF.

    Of course I appreciate the opinions here, but I simply think 1 opinion isn't enough. So, a couple of people confirm the tought of it being a possible fake decal, which I still think is kinda impossible as it was ground dug but ok, so I will just keep your opinions in mind. No problem Doug.

    Jeez I didn't expect you guys to be so 'attacked' by me and my simple, perhaps bogus decal. It's just a decal, I'm sorry for going to WAF to ask some other opinions.
    The decal is really not my main concern. In any case the shell is real, that is what I needed. What does disturb me is the fact that you break it completely down on WAF. Especially this line: 'To make something worth nothing worth $80'. A shell without a decal is still worth something..

    + There's the fact that the shell retains a lot of original apple green paint, so original remains of a decal would be plausible. I'm just saying.. Or do you think the paint is bogus as well?

    Cheers

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  3. #32
    ?

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Don't worry about the WAF issue mate. I also on first impression thought that you wanted to go to WAF in "protest", but i interpreted it as just to get other opinions. Nothing wrong with that of course. However we have some "big guns" here and a few of them have labeled your decal as a repro/fake. I'm in no doubt they are right,especially when i hold their opinions up against my own knowledge on relic decals. I own a few and have seen a lot of them. DougB and Schwerpunkt are always worth listening to.

    Happy collecting

    Lars

  4. #33

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Lars,

    Of course. I know Schwerpunkt and Doug know a lot, I just don't hope they think of me as unwilling to believe them. Every opinion appreciated :thumbsup:

    Sorry DougB and Schwerpunkt if you thought I was going to WAF in protest, I really appreciate you guys helping out.

    I'll surf some sites to see what fake variation it actually could be. Anyone have any ideas of what repro variation it could be?

    Cheers

  5. #34
    ?

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    I don't feel attacked whatsoever Ken, it just strikes me as self serving that you said you'll go to WAF when opinions are negative here but you didn't do that when opinions were positive. In other words if Frank or Datrus didn't voice a negative opinion you wouldn't have considered the option. So on the surface it seems that opinions were only sought that would validate your opinion. There are some learned collectors here as well as there. Either way it's not a big deal so no harm done. The problem with the written word is we misunderstand or don't realize intent and context.

    As for the comment, you asked why would anyone fake it and I don't mean to say relics have no collector value but a relic in poor condition with no decal is probably not worth the value of international postage. Pop a $2.00 decal on it and appeal and value increase exponentially. That's my point.

    Yes I also think this was repainted, cleaned and a decal added. M40s were not apple green unless an SE police as Frank has pointed out.

    Also this helmet may have been faked 5 years ago and sold for $250 back then and was just dumped to get some cash value now, I don't know but to assume what fakers will and won't do is walking on thin collecting ice.

    Cheers
    Doug

    PS just join GHW ( lots of big guns there ) and once a veteran you can access the fake decal database. Plenty of examples there and Frank already posted one here that appears to be yours.

  6. #35

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Doug,

    Please don't get me wrong. If you receive negative opinion on one of your lids, you would gather as much opinions as possible too. I don't know if it's in everyone's nature, but it is in mine to make sure I'm sure of something. That doesn't mean I don't trust the members here, in fact the opposite is true. The people @ WAF are very experienced as well, but there's a certain hierarchy which is not so pronounced here. That's what I personally like most about this forum.

    So please don't get me wrong or anything, I sometimes do the same when I get positive comments to make sure something's not bogus. And if the decal's fake it's fake, I won't lose sleep over it you know. All I needed was an original shell and I got one, but I must say that the decal fools me and will continue to fool me until I develop a certain expertise. US lids is more my thing, so I appreciate all help I can get when it comes to my German pots.

    Take care.

    Cheers,
    Ken

  7. #36

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Ken , check this helmet out on WAF : M42 SD Camo/wire. Opinions please - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    Also a fake BF. The telltale signs have been mentioned before in this topic , one aspect is that you will find these fakes often applied on the wrong helmet maker and an original BF should never be on an M42.

  8. #37

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Hi Frank,

    It's Frank isn't it? Thanks for the link!

    That I do know, because the bigfoots are typically seen on Quist helmets, and Quist rarely made M42s. Yes I know, I learned a lot from Ken Niewiarowicz's book :-D.

    Apparently they kept producing the M40 model until the end of the war. Is it really impossible on M42s, because Ken says they made some, but are extremely scarce apparently.
    What I did notice is that the feet on my decal are completely off. Especially its right foot when facing the decal, I don't know but it seems that the far right toe (when facing) is smaller than it should be, and the claw of the middle toe of the right foot doesn't have a 'twist' like Doug mentioned.

    I looked up some fake examples on decal sites etc. and they all feature a 'correct' right foot, so I guess I'll have to dig deeper to find it.

    Cheers,
    Ken

  9. #38

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Quote by kenbent View Post
    Hi Frank,

    It's Frank isn't it? Thanks for the link!

    That I do know, because the bigfoots are typically seen on Quist helmets, and Quist rarely made M42s. Yes I know, I learned a lot from Ken Niewiarowicz's book :-D.

    Apparently they kept producing the M40 model until the end of the war. Is it really impossible on M42s, because Ken says they made some, but are extremely scarce apparently.
    What I did notice is that the feet on my decal are completely off. Especially its right foot when facing the decal, I don't know but it seems that the far right toe (when facing) is smaller than it should be, and the claw of the middle toe of the right foot doesn't have a 'twist' like Doug mentioned.

    I looked up some fake examples on decal sites etc. and they all feature a 'correct' right foot, so I guess I'll have to dig deeper to find it.

    Cheers,
    Ken
    Hi Ken,

    I came in a bit late on this one to be useful, everything has been said already and I agree. I can at least tell you though that Quist did indeed make a few M42 helmets, but so late into the war that none had any decals. They also never stopped making the 40, so they were making 40's and 42's side by side from probably sometime in 1944 to the wars end. I think they made a few 42's immediately after the war for fire use etc, but these post war helmets don't carry a lot number. Also I understand that all wartime Quist M42's are size 64 and carry a DN prefix to the lot number.

    Quist went on to produce M40-ish helmets for the BGS into the fifties and possibly beyond, again no lot number and slightly different vents.

    Cheers, Andy

  10. #39

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Andy,

    Thanks for the extra information. All I knew was that they stopped using decals late in 1943, didn't know all Quist M42s are of the same size. I kinda have a weak spot for M42s, my favorite model.

    Cheers,
    Ken

  11. #40

    Default Re: M40 Heerestruppe... What to do with it?

    Quote by kenbent View Post
    Andy,

    Thanks for the extra information. All I knew was that they stopped using decals late in 1943, didn't know all Quist M42s are of the same size. I kinda have a weak spot for M42s, my favorite model.

    Cheers,
    Ken
    Personally I love the 35's but I know what you mean about M42's. They are raw and ugly (in the nicest way) and for fighting in, not mincing around a parade square in shiny boots

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