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Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

Article about: Well that's exactly what I though they were Joe, good description. I did like seeing the photo above of the beaded helmet in combat but without context it could be a late war thing or not ev

  1. #11

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    Well that's exactly what I though they were Joe, good description. I did like seeing the photo above of the beaded helmet in combat but without context it could be a late war thing or not even a beaded lid.

    Second rate or not I would rather have a helmet than nothing at all

    Jason

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    Quote by Danmark View Post
    Hard to really tell if it's a band or a bead - Wayne ( ww2relics&collectables ) has a relic with a rubber band on it and it could be perceived as a bead from a short distance. I will compare the gauge of the steel with calipers when it arrives to several of my combat lids and let you know the results.
    If anyone has vernier calipers that can reach over the rolled rim you can check helmets of your own ( or measure the rolled edge & halve the amount )

    THAT should put to rest the idea that these were reject combat lids if the gauge is different.

    Dan
    I was thinking along the same lines as you a little while ago mate, but I changed my mind after seeing many LS beaded '35/'40/'42 lids with various flaws etc. Perhaps the gauge discrepancy is in fact the flaw in some instances.

    Our salvation, I believe, lies in the pensioners of the Reich. There simply must be a lovely old Frau somewhere in Germany that put these things together in the factory who knows the details better than any of us.

  4. #13

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    Quote by helmetone View Post
    Is it my eyes, or am I not finding any beaded helmets in those photos? They all look to have rubber straps, tubes, or whatever; where the bead would go.

    On a side note, did anyone notice in 4md's third pic, the soldier pointing with both hands, wearing a silver IAB that is half broken. Just something that caught my eye.
    Good spotting, didn't notice that one!

  5. #14

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    OK, now I get to put on my toolmakers hat and bore you all with some technical guff......

    A form die such as was used to shape the basic 'bell' of a helmet needs to have a certain clearance between the 'male' former and the 'female' form - this is the metal gauge ( thickness ) less a "pinch factor" ( a few thousanths of an inch ) which ensures a ripple free deep drawing process. When we see ripples or waves in a german combat helmet it is usually in the M42 models in the skirt area where as the shape flares out and where the "pinch" is not as great or as the die wore - as this part ( where the skirt blends into the bell ) takes the most friction.

    Makers never re-tooled for the M42 from the M40 but just omitted the rim folding and rolling operation. If a helmet of a lesser gauge material ( and in the european metric system the steps are at 0.2mm ) were pressed in the same die as one for the next size up, ripples would be seen on the side of the bell as well as the skirt.

    Edge and skirt blemishes occur as the stresses of a high carbon material build up toward the edge and I can imagine a group of inspectors assessing the formed helmet as to whether they could be scrapped, welded, or possibly relegated to a lesser role ....... waste not, want not!

    From a 'tooley's" point of view, I'd love to time travel back to the Quist factory and see this all happening!!!!!
    Cheers, Dan

  6. #15

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    One more thing - this is a bead roller, an automated ( possibly ) version of this is what would have been used to roll the bead into a helmet. Normally this is an operation that would be done BEFORE the rim is finished or holes punched as the stretching required to move the metal would distort the holes and rim.

    Unless the ballistics tests were done on a semi finished helmet I cannot see how the bead rolling was done on a finished lid without distorting the helmet substantially due to stretching.

    Also, combat helmets ( at least ) were hardened - thats why they crack - and a hardened helmet CANNOT be bead rolled.

    Dan

    BTW Joe - thanks a lot matey, I'll look after the "mulcher" for you!
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  7. #16

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    Quote by helmetone View Post
    Is it my eyes, or am I not finding any beaded helmets in those photos? They all look to have rubber straps, tubes, or whatever; where the bead would go.
    These photos were my best evidence for a beaded helmet in combat during the early years of the war. Upon a closer look and comparison, you are most likely correct. They do appear to be only rubber bands, not just the first picture, but the second as well.

    Regards,

    Corey

  8. #17
    ?

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    I noticed that in 4MDS photos , only the second one has a beaded helmet, all the rest are either rubber bands or chin straps, however there is no clear indication that this particular photo was from the same batch or same battle, therefore is not necessarily one that was actually used in actual combat, it may even be a propoganda photo as it is well posed, there have been many theories regarding the reason for beaded helmets, the two most commonly accepted reasons were that
    1/ The bead represents a defective shell, therefore was not used for combat
    2/ The bead was purposely stamped into the shell for recognition purposes
    other lightweight Luftschutz shells had the bead incorporated into the shell during normal manufacture, therefore a desire was to have the m35, 40,42 shells stamped with a bead as well, this would stand to reason as an argument exists that there would have been much easier and less time consuming methods to mark a defective shell, but the term Luftschutz beaded is debatable as other units used these helmets other than Luftschutz

  9. #18

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    Guys watch this and you will see them manufactured and tested... THE GERMAN HELMET - YouTube

  10. #19
    4md
    4md is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    Quote by helmetone View Post
    Is it my eyes, or am I not finding any beaded helmets in those photos? They all look to have rubber straps, tubes, or whatever; where the bead would go.

    On a side note, did anyone notice in 4md's third pic, the soldier pointing with both hands, wearing a silver IAB that is half broken. Just something that caught my eye.
    I noticed that as well, they must have lost a lot of these medals crawling around in the rubble

  11. #20

    Default Re: Types of beaded Luftschutz helmets??

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse with a stick, but Dave raises an interesting point. Does anybody have any evidence that beaded shells were created as a result of defects? That theory is hard for me to accept because it doesn't seem logically that a proven defective helmet would still be issued/given to civilians. Others have stated before that a bead most likely would not have improved strength of the shell and made up for the defects.

    It makes more sense to me that they would just recycle the steel in the defective shell, put it back into the process, and start from scratch. Instead of just giving away all the bad apples.

    Beaded helmets could have been deliberately created for civilian use. After all, they are supposedly lighter in weight. AND (I could be wrong about this) often found in smaller sizes, compared to the combat helmet shells. Most combat shells I have seen are around the 64/66 range, while most civilian shells (including beaded) are in the 62/64 range. If the defective shell theory is correct, why is it that most of the defective shells are on the small side?

    It could be that the bead is nothing more then a distinguishing characteristic, as to the shells civil role, to set them apart from their combat counterparts.

    Just a thought that I am sure has come up before.

    Corey
    Last edited by Sir Payne; 06-24-2012 at 04:14 AM.

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