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Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?

Article about: Hi Guys. My first post is a call for assistance in helping to ID a helmet I'm contemplating buying. Its listed as a postwar German police helmet. Looks like an M35/50? Its being sold for a r

  1. #1
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    Default Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?

    Hi Guys. My first post is a call for assistance in helping to ID a helmet I'm contemplating buying. Its listed as a postwar German police helmet. Looks like an M35/50? Its being sold for a reasonable price if kosher.

    On the plus side:
    1. Colour looks right
    2. Liner looks right - nine tongues plus holes in sweatband etc.
    3. Air vent hole looks right

    On the con side:

    1. Liner stamped M-1943 - faked up by some unscrupulous German perhaps to sell to tourists?
    2. No stamps on the steel - though I gather some postwar helmets were not marked
    3. Chin strap fastener doesn't look right

    Any assistance that you can give in helping to ID this helmet would be much appreciated. I already own WW2-era M40 and M42, and I'm keen on acquiring a postwar German police or BGS helmet. But I'm also worried about ending up with a Chinese fake!Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?

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  3. #2

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    It looks like a legit post war police lid to me, a few types of chinstrap/buckle were used on these. Are you sure there isn't a faint stamp in the shell? also i can't comment on the ink stamp!...
    It's a wasted trip baby. Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.



    I'm Spartacus, not really i'm Paul!...

  4. #3
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    Thanks for your reply Gunny. I haven't been able to examine the helmet physically, but I've asked the owner regarding stamps, and he says there are none. I have read that some batches of postwar German helmets were unmarked.

  5. #4

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    Quote by Gunny Hartmann View Post
    It looks like a legit post war police lid to me, a few types of chinstrap/buckle were used on these. Are you sure there isn't a faint stamp in the shell? also i can't comment on the ink stamp!...
    I agree 100%.

    If this has the tabs you speak of they should be the same black leather as the chinstrap and be "arrowhead" shaped. They are for the attachment of a neck protector and would likely indicate Civil Police post war rather than BGS (nowadays called Federal "Border" Police of course).

    I also think the "M-1943" stamp is bogus as it makes no sense unless it means something local and is not a reference to the year 1943?

    Some have very faint shell stamps and some none at all.

    Here are a couple of pics that might help of such a lid in my collection;

    Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?

    By the way welcome to the forum, you will love it.

    Why not tell us a bit about yourself and you collecting interests?

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  6. #5
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    Thanks Watchdog for your assistance. I've purchased the helmet and I shall give it a good examination once it arrives. I imagine there is an identifying mark, but it may be shallow or obscured by paint. At the least, I'm sure that liner is marked on the reverse. My personal view regarding the M-1943 stamp is that it was put on to a police helmet in order to sell it as WW2.

    I collect WW2 German stahlhelms and US M1s. I'm also branching out into West German Police and BGS lids. After a nice M35/53 next!

  7. #6

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    i have one exactly the same. same color, liner, chin strap, and ink stamp found it a few years back. it has a white plastic liner band as well. never got to the bottom of it.

  8. #7

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    These helmets seem to have gone through more variation than the wartime typres and the liners, cinstraps, even the shells can be found slightly different in appearance to what you might be expecting. Here are a couple more for reference;

    1. The M35/53 that you refer to which in this case is a BGS example.

    Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?

    2. Another BGS helmet with what appears to be a 35/50 vented shell but without the rivets and with the liner as per the 35/53. An in service modification or a changed during the manufacture perhaps?

    Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?

    Then of course the is the so called GSG9 helmet very similar to the wartime helmet of the paratroops that was eschewed by the Bundeswehr when it formed later than the BGS for exactly that reason (as with the M35/50).

    Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?

    I hope this is of interest.

    Regards

    Mark

    Regards

    Mark

    PS I don't know how that additional pic beneath my post crept in but it is of course the top of helmet No2 and is of no interest in this context.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?  
    Last edited by Watchdog; 10-15-2017 at 11:47 AM. Reason: PS
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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    This is a typical post war helmet (M53). The green or grey colored helmets (some with one or two decals) was used by the Bereitschaftspolizei.
    The helmets with The rough paint was used by the BGS (Bundesgrenzschutz). A interesting part of german helmet history ;-)

    Here are some examples:
    Is this a West German Police or BGS Helmet?

    Kind regards
    Basti

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    Thanks a million chaps! Fantastic information and pics.

    I'm glad to find other people who enjoy postwar Stahlhelms! I have a complete wartime M40 used by Luftwaffe Flakhelferen, and an M42 shell in addition to my mostly wartime US M1s. I was looking into obtaining a good original Nazi M34 when I came across references to the postwar use and production of German wartime helmets and became rather intrigued. Having visited many excellent Cold War sites in Germany, particularly Berlin, I've always been interested in that period. I was particularly fascinated by how 'Wehrmacht' both sides forces looked - BDS with their M35/50 and 53s, MG42s and K98s opposing East German NVA whose uniforms were basically wartime without the eagles (not keen on the terrible lids however!).
    I like the fact that the BDS and West German Police helmets are proper German kit, though a fraction of the price of wartime lids and much less faked. Though I imagine prices will rise as we collect them. I'm also intrigued that among the M35/50s are wartime shells reconditioned for postwar use.
    Did the West Germans manufacture M34s for police use as well? All the ones I see tend to be firefighters helms.
    On another note, when I was a kid I swapped an old lid for a German helmet, then stupidly traded it away as a teenager. Pre internet I never knew what it was, save that it had this strange beading round the middle. I've lately discovered from the intraweb that it was a nice black Luftschutz helmet. Blast!

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    German companys produced helmets during and after WWI and WWII. After the Second World War produced West Germany helmets (M53 - Looks like a M40) for the Bereitschaftspolizei. The Finnish Army bough this model 1955. Parts of the Vietnamese army used NVA helmet.

    A lot of countrys used german helmets. That is very intesting ;-)
    Have a look at this website: https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/...ca-after-wwii/

    The Bundeswehr and NVA did not used any Wehrmacht uniforms or helmets. The NVA uniform Looks like a Wehrmachts uniform, but they was new designed. But role model was the typical field grey uniform. Here is The presentation of the early NVA uniform 1956:
    https://youtu.be/-SvGkk7F_O4

    Kind regards
    Basti

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