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what do you think of this now.

Article about: I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the "somewhat"....personally, I think you've taken a fairly scarce German Naval helmet and basically destroyed it. It's a shame that you didn't as

  1. #81
    ?

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    RUDENESS DISCLAIMER** THE FOLLOWING POST IS NOT MEANT TO BE RUDE, ARROGANT OR UPSETTING IN ANY WAY. IT PRESENTS A DIFFERING VIEWPOINT THAN THAT OF THE PERSON WHO STARTED THE THREAD, MANY OF ITS READERS AND SUPPORTERS, AND MAY NOT BE READ AND UNDERSTOOD IN WHICH THE CONTEXT AS IT WAS WRITTEN**

    JOKE DISCLAIMER** THE ABOVE COMMENT IS MEANT TO BE A TONGUE IN CHEEK JOKE AND NOT MEANT TO BE OFFENSIVE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM HOWEVER THE SENSE OF HUMOR MAY DIFFER FROM COUNTRY TO COUNTRY AND REGION TO REGION AND CITY TO CITY ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE FROM CALGARY WHERE THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF HUMOR, TAKE THEMSELVES WAY TOO SERIOUSLY AND HAVE A BAD HOCKEY TEAM WITH NO HOPE FOR THE FUTURE AND THEREFORE MAY NOT BE READ AND UNDERSTOOD IN WHICH THE CONTEXT AS IT WAS WRITTEN**

    Now that all legal mumbo jumbo is out of the way....I honestly do not understand the point of restorations like this and am sorry but it is not an elitist attitude from on high, just an observation from someone who doesn't share in the process discussed here that is all (read above disclaimers). I know you are trying to make it look as good as you can and would never try to ruin it but as my dad says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. (insert LOL here).

    Removing varnish which has altered the paint colour to far beyond the original, yet leaving the decal completely varnished, then waxing the helmet? I understand the need to remove the varnish completely to get to the original paint below. Waxing the helmet is simply adding another layer on top of the paint now. It seems strange to me to remove 1 coating only to add another and in the process the original paint, patination and wear patterns were damaged.

    Personally, a bit of research asking how to professionally remove varnish might have yielded you far different results ( put in box, mail to Maertz, open box, done) and retained the paint in its correct finish which is what Schwerpunkt is referring to, not wear and tear which misses the point completely. There is more to the German helmet than just the shape and while its admirable to bring the helmet back to its original state, a post varnished paint damaged waxed helmet does not come close, in my humble opinion which many may not share and thats fine with me, just trying to present a different viewpoint to restorations and how good they really can be.

    Too me its like plastic surgery gone wrong (note Michael Jackson and the dude from the You Spin Me Round song).

    The reason I bring it up is I have seen so many botched restoration attempts and the "if your going to do something - do it right" OCD voices in my head scream every time I see something that could have been something far better in the end.

    POLITICAL CORRECT ENDING DISCLAIMER** THE ENDING OF THIS POST IS TO ENSURE PROPER POLITICAL CORRECTNESS PROTOCOL WAS FOLLOWED WHICH IS TO ENSURE NO HURT FEELINGS AND TO KEEP EVERYBODY HAPPY. WHY WE KEEP SCORE IN SPORTING EVENTS OR HAVE GRADES ON OUR CHILDRENS REPORT CARDS I NEVER KNOW. OH, AND PLEASE RE-READ JOKE DISCLAIMER ABOVE, THIS WAS MEANT TO BE ANOTHER POOR ATTEMPT AT TONGUE IN CHEEK CANADIAN LAUGH AT OURSELVES HUMOUR AND PROBABLY FAILED MISERABLY

    If your happy with it thats what matters. :-) (but maybe the next time you will do even better and thats the fun, learning part of the hobby!)

    Cheers and happy days ahead

    Doug

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  3. #82

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    Quote by DougB View Post
    RUDENESS DISCLAIMER** THE FOLLOWING POST IS NOT MEANT TO BE RUDE, ARROGANT OR UPSETTING IN ANY WAY. IT PRESENTS A DIFFERING VIEWPOINT THAN THAT OF THE PERSON WHO STARTED THE THREAD, MANY OF ITS READERS AND SUPPORTERS, AND MAY NOT BE READ AND UNDERSTOOD IN WHICH THE CONTEXT AS IT WAS WRITTEN**

    JOKE DISCLAIMER** THE ABOVE COMMENT IS MEANT TO BE A TONGUE IN CHEEK JOKE AND NOT MEANT TO BE OFFENSIVE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM HOWEVER THE SENSE OF HUMOR MAY DIFFER FROM COUNTRY TO COUNTRY AND REGION TO REGION AND CITY TO CITY ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE FROM CALGARY WHERE THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF HUMOR, TAKE THEMSELVES WAY TOO SERIOUSLY AND HAVE A BAD HOCKEY TEAM WITH NO HOPE FOR THE FUTURE AND THEREFORE MAY NOT BE READ AND UNDERSTOOD IN WHICH THE CONTEXT AS IT WAS WRITTEN**

    Now that all legal mumbo jumbo is out of the way....I honestly do not understand the point of restorations like this and am sorry but it is not an elitist attitude from on high, just an observation from someone who doesn't share in the process discussed here that is all (read above disclaimers). I know you are trying to make it look as good as you can and would never try to ruin it but as my dad says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. (insert LOL here).

    Removing varnish which has altered the paint colour to far beyond the original, yet leaving the decal completely varnished, then waxing the helmet? I understand the need to remove the varnish completely to get to the original paint below. Waxing the helmet is simply adding another layer on top of the paint now. It seems strange to me to remove 1 coating only to add another and in the process the original paint, patination and wear patterns were damaged.

    Personally, a bit of research asking how to professionally remove varnish might have yielded you far different results ( put in box, mail to Maertz, open box, done) and retained the paint in its correct finish which is what Schwerpunkt is referring to, not wear and tear which misses the point completely. There is more to the German helmet than just the shape and while its admirable to bring the helmet back to its original state, a post varnished paint damaged waxed helmet does not come close, in my humble opinion which many may not share and thats fine with me, just trying to present a different viewpoint to restorations and how good they really can be.

    Too me its like plastic surgery gone wrong (note Michael Jackson and the dude from the You Spin Me Round song).

    The reason I bring it up is I have seen so many botched restoration attempts and the "if your going to do something - do it right" OCD voices in my head scream every time I see something that could have been something far better in the end.

    POLITICAL CORRECT ENDING DISCLAIMER** THE ENDING OF THIS POST IS TO ENSURE PROPER POLITICAL CORRECTNESS PROTOCOL WAS FOLLOWED WHICH IS TO ENSURE NO HURT FEELINGS AND TO KEEP EVERYBODY HAPPY. WHY WE KEEP SCORE IN SPORTING EVENTS OR HAVE GRADES ON OUR CHILDRENS REPORT CARDS I NEVER KNOW. OH, AND PLEASE RE-READ JOKE DISCLAIMER ABOVE, THIS WAS MEANT TO BE ANOTHER POOR ATTEMPT AT TONGUE IN CHEEK CANADIAN LAUGH AT OURSELVES HUMOUR AND PROBABLY FAILED MISERABLY

    If your happy with it thats what matters. :-) (but maybe the next time you will do even better and thats the fun, learning part of the hobby!)

    Cheers and happy days ahead

    Doug
    Ok I understand what your saying ,I took no paint off .the remover was on the helmet between 30/45 seconds each time I washed with soapy water no paint was removed the helmet looks better that's it ,,,,I could just leave the helmet but I will wax it,,,

  4. #83

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

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    Quote by Panzer 3 View Post
    I can see what schwerpunkt is saying but on the other hand no helmet from either ww1 / 2, will ever look like it did in that period as it has wear and tear.
    Dave , battle wear and tear is to be expected on a combat helmet , minor damage from storage , kids etc should also be taken into account.
    Most helmets I have handled are in their original war state in my opinion. Just think how silly you would have to act with a helmet to damage the paint , you'd have to almost kill yourself. Wartime photos also give a good idea on how decals and such were damaged , helmets nailed to crosses and so on.
    A lot of helmets are vet bringbacks , often sitting in their desks , attics or garages for years.
    Unissued helmets were also captured and many survive today in exactly the state they were in when they were made.
    All these , combat used and unissued alike are the helmets that tell stories and reek of dust and history.

    Restoration and collecting are two completely different hobbies to me. It seems a restorer is driven to better something , to disassemble , clean and recreate.
    Often good pieces get damaged this way or the result is not what it should be.

    A collector looks for untouched items , studies them and keeps them stored in a good environment.

    Here's an example of a almost unworn Luftwaffe helmet, like it would come out of the factory in 1942.

  5. #84

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    Wow, I just checked this thread again after a week

  6. #85

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    Hi Doug and Schwerpunkt, I agree with your comments. I collect helmets that I don't touch at all to maintain their integrity and retain their collectors value. I also collect cheap basket cases which I try to retain some dignity for, basically, bad post war repaints - I think it sad when this happens. I once found an almost unrecoverable DD M35 Camo LW under a rusty bad post-war paint job. While I keep both interests separate Griffinz is somewhere in between and I am sure he has learned a valuable lesson.
    There is also a very thin line between collectors and restorers. Over the years I have seen a few 'originals' that I suspected have been subtely waxed - late war ND M42s are often dull with thin/faded paintwork. I would never wax an original but am comfortable doing this to a recovered basket case - and stating that this is the case.
    Maybe this post should be in the restoration section - although I see the real value is in helping new collectors with limited budgets and experience understand that cheap buys do not necessarily equate to basket cases. Terry

  7. #86

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    No insult or derision intended here, but a single application of Paint has many "layers" or depth and thickness, if you will, within itself-the outer most being the one that exhibits time darkening and so-called patina from exposure to the elements, dust, air, etc, and when something is applied to the outermost of it and immediate removed but leaves it looking paler and lighter in color, then something has indeed been removed. It hardly makes logical sense to keep insisting that "no paint was removed", as obviously even the thinnest veneer of it Had to have been. Certainly, the original paint did not exhibit the paler cast appearance to it that it has at present. Of course, no paint was removed to the point of seeing bare steel, but absolutely the top few microns thick surface of it had to have been.
    You've said repeatedly that you think it looks "correct and right" after your treatment of it and if that is, indeed, the way that you see it as, then good. Others, including myself, apparently do not agree and believe that it looks significantly altered from what its normal appearance should be. It takes no expert to see that it does look oddly pale and lighter and apparently you, yourself, agree with this, as you are planning on waxing it to darken it abit. But, as you've also said previously, it's your helmet and you're happy with it and that's all that really matters in the long run, isn't it? You've sold helmets in the past, and I imagine that someday this one might Also be on the market and all that I would ask is that you do mention it's treatment it's had in the past to the someday new owner. It is, afterall, a fairly scarce helmet-being a KM- and if this is the best preservation that it can have after the bumpy life it's endured, then it will have to be enough. There's an old saying "You can't put an egg back in it's shell once you crack it...but you can still make a fairly decent omelet!"
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  8. #87

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    Quote by Wagriff View Post
    You've sold helmets in the past, and I imagine that someday this one might Also be on the market and all that I would ask is that you do mention it's treatment it's had in the past to the someday new owner.
    He didn't see this bit apparently I recently sold a helmet I stripped post war spray paint from, and fully disclosed it's history in the advert. It is not fair on the new owner and isn't far from painting up a lid and selling it as original.

    Poor form.

  9. #88

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    Quote by KradSpam View Post
    He didn't see this bit apparently I recently sold a helmet I stripped post war spray paint from, and fully disclosed it's history in the advert. It is not fair on the new owner and isn't far from painting up a lid and selling it as original.

    Poor form.
    Agreed ...... I bought Andy's helmet with the full knowledge of it's "resurrection" and his personal time & effort in doing so.
    I am fully aware that it is NOT the 'original' finish but a damn sight better now than it was before - and ( if ) when it leaves my hands it will do so with that information as well.
    Cheers, Dan

  10. #89
    ?

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    Well, I doubt that the collor the helmet has now, 'cleaned', isn't the original collor of the helmet...

    Did you painted the helmet in gray or sow???

    K.

  11. #90

    Default Re: what do you think of this now.

    I would have left it alone or sent it off to a professional --- at this point it's, pardon me for saying this, a VERY messed up helmet that seemingly had a lot of potential to begin with.

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