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WW2 German cammo pattern barn find...real deal?

Article about: Hi folks...I was hoping for some input on this helmet I picked up yesterday. I collect mainly US helmets but I do have a Luft and Heer I d like to think I know the difference in

  1. #31


    I'm sure there is, Doug-am not saying that there isn't...but I'd still like to see a sprayer or 2 being owned or offered for sale...or at least some photos putting on the nicely patterned camos...


    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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  3. #32


    What needs to be understood here is that the size of the spray gun has nothing to do with the finish that can be obtained.

    There has always been a variety of tips that fit to the nozzle of a spray gun, whether industrial or hobby, that affect the area covered and the manner in which the paint is delivered, this is often referred to as the 'fan size'. This can range from reasonably fine and light to well over a foot wide and opaque depending on what sized tip is used to create the required fan size and at what coverage density is desired, and therefore the appearance of the finished paint job.

    One only has to look at various camouflage patterns on some aircraft and AFV's of the time to see what could be achieved. The above helmet has been given a base coat and then given quick, short, light sprays with two other subdued colours as far as I can see, where's the mystery in that???

    I find it hard to see how the long accepted as genuine type of camouflage that is seen on many helmets that has been applied in the field by use of a spray gun from the outfits workshop can suddenly be pooh-poohed by members here in this thread for reasons unknown and unexplained/unproven, and are otherwise unfounded...., it's absolutely absurd.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #33


    Hear Hear Ned!! Bravo, you spared me the diatribe. This war occurred in an industrial age and people were not bereft of ability or technique. These were disposable items. It is far to fashionable to declare 'fake, fraud or dubious' without any knowledge to back it up.

  5. #34


    I could write out a long response, but instead, I'll just repeat that no one is saying yea or nay one way or the other here, but simply that I want to see a period photo of these camo patterns being applied or even see a sprayer in someone's collection. I've seen every conceivable and unconceivable bit of German gear-from German condoms to Luftwaffe chain hoists to electronics and tools that I haven't even a clue as to what they even Do. The Germans marked the most minute items with as many marks as they could fit onto them and further, they took photos of the most mundane of things like men sitting on latrine railings all the way up to grisly war trophy photos. Certainly, Someone snapped a shot of a group of helmets being sprayed with "Normandy" camo or whatever other names it's been given. Nobody out there has a German spray painter in their collections-despite it being a superb addition to any helmet grouping? In the meantime, let's resist the urge to get fur up and begin with insults and the like. It's a legitimate request to make-if such things Are out there, I'd like to See them.

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  6. #35


    I can't see any doubt that they had spray equipment, as many examples of vehicles being sprayed camouflage as well as equipment boxes , to go on vehicles. I doubt we go to bovington tank museum and call all the vehicles fakes and question if this they ever camouflaged the vehicles ,because we think it maybe to technical to paint a Tiger . A lot of camoulage stripes/ marks if compared to a helmet are of the same width.

  7. #36


    If i'd had the chance this one would be sitting near to me now , a nice Camo lid for me.
    The gates of hell were opened and we accepted the invitation to enter" 26/880 Lance Sgt, Edward Dyke. 26th Bn Northumberland Fusiliers , ( 3rd Tyneside Irish )

    1st July 1916

    Thought shall be the harder , heart the keener,
    Courage the greater as our strength faileth.
    Here lies our leader ,in the dust of his greatness.
    Who leaves him now , be damned forever.
    We who are old now shall not leave this Battle,
    But lie at his feet , in the dust with our leader

    House Carles at the Battle of Hastings

  8. #37


    William the photos are out there. Do a search on your own and you will find them. But if you don't believe they exist then you'll never find them.

    Also spray equipment doesn't fall into the realm of Militaria, it's technical equipment, and I don't know anyone who collects WW2 paint sprayers. I also have never seen anyone show me period photos of WW2 torque wrenches. Nor have I seen any in collections. So do I assume they did not exist?

    With all due respect, it's a silly argument you make that because you personally haven't seen a period photo of a hand held paint spray gun (join GHW2 and you will) - nor have you seen a real one - nor that you understand the technical and technique aspects of paint spraying - that they don't exist.

    You are omitting one other fact. Indisputable provenance of spray camo helmets from veterans directly and period photos of spray Normandy helmets in use by German soldiers.

    To state that they don't exist when there is photographic evidence of sprayed helmets in use and direct provenance to the veterans who brought them home as souvineers simply because you haven't seen pics of, nor an actual, tiny spray gun, which you -assume- they would have used, is an absolute nonsensical statement and ridiculous stance to take IMO.
    Last edited by DougB; 04-01-2015 at 05:46 PM.

  9. #38


    I have a tricolor summer camo relic that was dug up near the city of Nevel in Russia, on German 1944 positions --- this camo scheme is pretty well preserved and is also clearly sprayed on. I see no controversy here... the fact that a lot of fakes are also spray camos is another matter entirely, imo.

  10. #39


    The helmet in itself is a good one, and at that kind of money is not one you would readily turn down. The problem that I have with it are the patches of green sprayed on left front and right front. When viewed against the rest of the paintwork - which is quite heavily stained, it is in remarkably good condition. I originally commented that to me, it looked as though those two patches of green might have been an attempt by someone to do some restoration on the helmet. In any event, it is nice to see the helmet being properly debated on the forum.
    Books published to date... 'Belfast Diaries: A Gunner In Northern Ireland'... 'A Tough Nut To Crack - Andersonstown'... 'An Accrington Pal: The Diaries of Pte Jack Smallshaw, September 1914 To March 1919'.

  11. #40


    I don't see post #37 as being "properly debated", Harry. It is a personal attack and insult and is absolutely uncalled for. I assumed that this being a public forum that questions were subject to discussion, researching and debate here and that such was actually Encouraged here. And now I'm being told that I'm saying that authentic camouflage helmets don't exist? I guess that I wrote in invisible ink, as rereading my posts here, I'm not seeing That either.

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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