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Alcoso Feuerschutz Poliezi Sabel?

Article about: Annoyed from this ads?   Name: DSC02277.jpg  Views: 11  Size: 54.6 KB  ID: 704902 class= thumbnail style= float:CONFIG /> I recently picked up this example fairly cheap t

  1. #11


    Quote by Michael Ryan View Post
    Hi, You have a nice, if fairly common sabre of stadard un adorned pattern. I agree with Fred and would respectfully sugest that it is almost certainly a Military Officer's or Other Ranks sword and not a Fire Officer's sword as originally described. Other than the deggen, all of the Fire Officer's swords that I have handled or own have the same hilt as your sword in nickel silver finish and there the similarity ends. All have black leather scabbards with three silver mounts, being drag or chape, centre suspension fitting with ring and throat fitting also with ring. They have very nice etched blades with fire helmets, ladders, buckets and other items emblematic of the Fire Services and have a silver knot with red/pink silk lines on a silver braid loop. Although not a particularly popular sword, quite a rare item in its own right.

    With regards to the logo, as Larry pointed out, it is a standard Coppel format but I would suggest that it is perhaps not as common as some of their other logos.

    As an after thought, your sword is possibly an Other Ranks item?? Although I do not recall either seeing or reading about such swords. A possibility none-the-less?? I would be happy to be contradicted on the last statement.

    Hope that this is of interest to you.

    Regards and best wishes Michael Ryan
    Michael, I'd certainly like to think it might be a Heer officer's or NCO's sabel instead of feuerschutz; in all other respects but the hilt it's exactly like them, plain blade and black painted scabbard. But since it seems identical in all respects to the one posted by maximus71 I'm inclined to believe it's the same as his. Thank you for your input!

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  3. #12


    Just for the record the one I posted is being sold on Wittmanns site.

  4. #13


    I can add that the fire portapee shown on the sword by Maximus is identical but smaller version (Knot is smaller) that goes to the Fire bayonets. What fire sabers I have seen are in a leather scabbard and nickel plated I have read that some of the Ordance officers swords as suggested as shown here have Waa marks in them and I have seen one or two that were brass like this one with both a early Drooptail Waa and a later outstretched wing Waa so I would assume they were issue pieces rather than private purchase. Regards timothy

  5. #14


    Quote by Gwar View Post
    Any reasoning of the different makers marks through production years ?? Thanks G
    Separation of production runs in some cases..and company identity face lift. JMO
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  6. #15


    Hi, Further to the ongoing discussion re your sword and its origins. I have taken some happy snaps of two of my swords to highlight the two different knots that I have encountered on Fire Official's Swords viz Army swords. Whilst the hilts are more or less identical in all three cases, the scabbards are entirely different as is the etching on the blades. However, If your sword is as described, Fire rather than Military then perhaps it is for a lower rank or merely a variation. Bear in mind, you can append a knot to any sword and call it what you want. Ergo, tie a diplomatic knot to your sword, does it then become a Diplomatic Junior Officer's or NCO's sword?? The Germans played fast and loose with their use of insignia and dress weaponry as can be clearly seen in the thread "They would not have worn that". The answer as far as I am concerned is Pass, I do not know. Having said that, after 50 odd years of collecting, if I purchased your sword, I would call it Army regardless of the knot unless there was compelling evidence to the contrary. Basically, it is nice plain sword and it is whatever you want it to be.

    The sword illustrated below is by WKC. It has a nickel hilt and scabbard fittings over black leather and a standard black "plastic" over wood grip with a tripple brass wrap. The blade is well etched bearing Fire related embelishments. The knot strap is silver braid with two double pink/red strands. The knot is also silver or possibly faded gold and large with an orangy red base. This I believe to be a standard Fire Official's knot and strap and possibly pre 1933???? Any alternative suggestion are more than welcome.

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    I hope that this post is of use and interest to you.

    Regards Michael Ryan

  7. #16


    Hi, Further to my last post, here is a second sword for comparison. Although of identical pattern there are a number of minor but distinctive variations between the two swords. Manufactured by Eickhorn with an early trade mark, this sword has silver plated fittings both to the grip and scabbard. It has a shagreen grip cover over a wooden former and is of marginally superior finish to the WKC sword. The major difference however is in the sword knot and strap. The strap is black leather with a triple silver metalic thread runing down its length. The knot is silver or possible tarnished gold with red vertical stripes and is smaller than the knot on the WKC sword. The base of the knot is red. I believe this knot to be a universal pattern Fire knot of post 1933 vintage. Again, please feel free to correct me if you disagree.

    Cheers once again Michael R

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  8. #17


    While I agree that this generic hilt style was often used by early 3R Feuerwehr officers, the specific sword shown was likely worn by a Heer officer. Why you ask? Because the knot strap that still adorns it seems to show two rows of aluminum thread. Heer sword knots have both two or three rows of thread Feuerwehr sword knots only have three rows. Since this one only appears to have two rows, I'd guess it was Heer.

  9. #18


    Hi Billy G, I too would call it an Army sword. But others may use a different logic to us?? Cheers MR

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