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Alcoso Feuerschutz Poliezi Sabel?

Article about: Annoyed from this ads?   Name: DSC02277.jpg  Views: 11  Size: 54.6 KB  ID: 704902 class= thumbnail style= float:CONFIG /> I recently picked up this example fairly cheap t

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    Default Alcoso Feuerschutz Poliezi Sabel?

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    I recently picked up this example fairly cheap thinking it was an officer's ordnance sabel but have found one online identified as Feuerschutz - any thoughts or information on this? There's a perfect but dried-out finger loop between the grip and knucklebow that's almost completely covered by the remnant of the sword knot; I've decided to leave it "as is" since it's protected that way and has obviously been there since the war!

    I don't remember ever seeing this style of Alcoso trademark though.

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    The sword looks great as it is..which I know Mike Ryan will appreciate...the logo is 1 out of 30 Alcoso types..the one on your sword is variant #19. Which is common to be used in the TR period. Below are a list of other Alcoso trademarks used. the first one being used in 1894- the last in 1938. Regards Larry

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    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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    Larry, thank you for the logos - I think I'd seen these somewhere before when I was researching my first Alcoso ( a typical Heer NCO sword marked like #21) but didn't remember where. As to type - is it in fact Feuerschutz poliezi or could it be something else as well? I liked the "untouched" condition of this, even with the broken knot. What kind of ball would belong on it? This was obviously well-worn because it's in good overall condition with normal chips and dings in the painted scabbard, but the paint's entirely gone from the bar where it clips to the frog.

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    Members Jim P or Timothy would best answer the question of portepee knot belonging to this Bayonet. I like to see a little wear..but lightly on some of my knives..it shows usage ..and with usage it shows ownership. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

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    Hi James, Nice fire officials sword, this early model is what was used before the standard SS/Fire Police degan, here is a photo with the proper portepee attached, nice find!!!
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    What is called in some books the "Ordnance" model saber is in fact the government purchased/property German Army Officer's model saber for senior grade NCO's (Unteroffiziere mit Portepee) that was provided to them as needed for the performance of their duties. With the latest examples that come to mind those with 1938 dates. But what is interesting with this saber is that: 1) It appears to have a German Army (?) sword knot - 2) It appears to not be brass, but instead gold plated steel? 3) And it has the later type Alcosco TM on the blade like some late(r) issue 84/98 German Police bayonets. And we know that the Police Degens themselves were introduced in 1938 when copper based alloys were a thing of the past for new manufacture commercial use (private sector purchases). All of which is my roundabout way of suggesting that the sword might just be a later plain version of the German Army officer's saber ....... ? Best Regards, Fred

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    Quote by Frogprince View Post
    What is called in some books the "Ordnance" model saber is in fact the government purchased/property German Army Officer's model saber for senior grade NCO's (Unteroffiziere mit Portepee) that was provided to them as needed for the performance of their duties. With the latest examples that come to mind those with 1938 dates. But what is interesting with this saber is that: 1) It appears to have a German Army (?) sword knot - 2) It appears to not be brass, but instead gold plated steel? 3) And it has the later type Alcosco TM on the blade like some late(r) issue 84/98 German Police bayonets. And we know that the Police Degens themselves were introduced in 1938 when copper based alloys were a thing of the past for new manufacture commercial use (private sector purchases). All of which is my roundabout way of suggesting that the sword might just be a later plain version of the German Army officer's saber ....... ? Best Regards, Fred
    It in fact seems to be gilt-on-brass with a good bit of it gone, especially from the P-guard knucklebow which had a thin, sickly green corrosion from the brass. ( Sorry for the dark photos! ) Due to its similarity to the one posted by maximus71 I'm inclined to believe it's the same.

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    James, Speaking generally, the unadorned Officer's sword models in the period catalogs that come to mind are basically the same with perhaps a number identifying the model. And the darkness of the images and interior(?) lighting did make it harder to get a good "feel" for the sword from the images. With the Germans in World War One when all (or most) of the copper went to ammunition - Solingen makers adopting a gold-(gilt) over brass plating on the steel or iron before the black wartime hilt finishes. With prior to the commencement of World War Two the Germans once again resorting to substitutes as supplies of various metals became restricted materials. Which is what this example in a few places looked like it might be as comparable to what I have seen in the past. But in hand and/or with better lighting - that can help make a better determination. And in hand sometimes when I was still trying make up my mind I ended up deciding to carry a small magnet which for me was the final arbiter. And if you like I can always post the closeup that made me (besides the TM) lean towards a later manufactured sword versus early. PS: I've been wrong, or even very wrong, before in trying to decipher images posted on the Internet. So this is just my best opinion at the moment from what I seem to be seeing in the images. Best Regards, Fred

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    Hi, You have a nice, if fairly common sabre of stadard un adorned pattern. I agree with Fred and would respectfully sugest that it is almost certainly a Military Officer's or Other Ranks sword and not a Fire Officer's sword as originally described. Other than the deggen, all of the Fire Officer's swords that I have handled or own have the same hilt as your sword in nickel silver finish and there the similarity ends. All have black leather scabbards with three silver mounts, being drag or chape, centre suspension fitting with ring and throat fitting also with ring. They have very nice etched blades with fire helmets, ladders, buckets and other items emblematic of the Fire Services and have a silver knot with red/pink silk lines on a silver braid loop. Although not a particularly popular sword, quite a rare item in its own right.

    With regards to the logo, as Larry pointed out, it is a standard Coppel format but I would suggest that it is perhaps not as common as some of their other logos.


    As an after thought, your sword is possibly an Other Ranks item?? Although I do not recall either seeing or reading about such swords. A possibility none-the-less?? I would be happy to be contradicted on the last statement.

    Hope that this is of interest to you.

    Regards and best wishes Michael Ryan

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    Any reasoning of the different makers marks through production years ?? Thanks G

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