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Artillery lionhead sabre, marked "Gew (?) vom Stammpersonal"

Article about: This lionhead sabre is a WKC made example, dated to 1937 by the inscription on the blade. What's confused me is the rest of the inscription, as I speak no german. I think it says Gew. Vom St

  1. #1

    Default Artillery lionhead sabre, marked "Gew (?) vom Stammpersonal"

    This lionhead sabre is a WKC made example, dated to 1937 by the inscription on the blade. What's confused me is the rest of the inscription, as I speak no german.

    I think it says Gew. Vom Stammpersonal, but I'm not sure on the "G". It could be a "B".

    Anyway, it proceeds to say

    "17 (?) R 84"

    followed by

    "27 1 1937"

    Artillery lionhead sabre, marked "Gew (?) vom Stammpersonal"

    Artillery lionhead sabre, marked "Gew (?) vom Stammpersonal"

    Artillery lionhead sabre, marked "Gew (?) vom Stammpersonal"

    Artillery lionhead sabre, marked "Gew (?) vom Stammpersonal"

    Has anyone seen a panel like this? Anyone able to read it better, translate it? I'm guessing the "17 (?) R 84" is regimental, and the "27 1 1937" is the presentation date. I have no idea what "gew" is an abbreviation for.

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  3. #2

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    Better photo

    Artillery lionhead sabre, marked "Gew (?) vom Stammpersonal"

  4. #3
    ?

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    GEW stands for Dedicated - in other words "" dedicated from the Staff etc -------" . By the way a nice sword.
    Horst
    "He who hesitates is lost - is not only lost but miles from the next exit"

  5. #4

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    Quote by Horst View Post
    GEW stands for Dedicated - in other words "" dedicated from the Staff etc -------" . By the way a nice sword.
    Horst
    So gewidmet?

    Is the second like "17. J.R. 84"? Wouldn't that be a jager regiment? Doesnt seem to fit an artillery sword

  6. #5
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    Quote by IPostSwords View Post
    So gewidmet?

    Is the second like "17. J.R. 84"? Wouldn't that be a jager regiment? Doesnt seem to fit an artillery sword
    Yes indeed: Gewidmet vom Stammpersonal
    thats: Dedicated from the permanent or established staff

    Regards
    Ger

  7. #6

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    A picture of the obverse side of the hilt would I suspect be very helpful, but based on just the inscription alone it’s probably related to the 84th Infantry Regiment which was active in that period. The script/stylized “I” and “J” oftentimes problematic when interpreting inscriptions/markings. Best Regards, Fred

  8. #7
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    Quote by Frogprince View Post
    A picture of the obverse side of the hilt would I suspect be very helpful, but based on just the inscription alone it’s probably related to the 84th Infantry Regiment which was active in that period. The script/stylized “I” and “J” oftentimes problematic when interpreting inscriptions/markings. Best Regards, Fred
    Fully agree on that one.
    To me its also the I.R.

    Ger

  9. #8

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    Artillery lionhead sabre, marked "Gew (?) vom Stammpersonal"

    The reverse langet won't tell you much, it's missing a component.

    Interesting that it's for an infantry regiment, given the artillery train panel. Wonder why that is, Angolia mentions that the blued panels normally correspond to the regiment, but that's harsdly an infantry scene.

  10. #9

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    Thanks for posting the other side which I think does help. The missing appliqué adds another layer of mystery/speculation, but not one that’s particularly troubling. The government issue officer’s saber for all of the specialized (Infantry/Artillery/Cavalry etc.) branches/formations in the TR era being a plain “P” style hilted saber that originated in the Weimar era. The private purchase types following Imperial traditions could also be a Lion head as ornate and/or decorated, or not, to suit the purchaser’s wishes. The cannon in the etch looking to be a muzzle loader from before WW I - it could be that the maker was just using leftover parts and etching templates to complete an order without incurring additional expenses?

    PS: Because Infantrymen unlike the cavalry, field artillery etc. did not carry swords, there were as a general rule no long decorative panels for use on swords as leftovers from earlier times. Best Regards, Fred

  11. #10

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    Hi, You have, in my opinion, a very nice sabre with a very interesting etch. May I suggest that without a name, it would be almost impossible to tie this weapon down to a specific person or event. I totally agree with prior comments passed by people who know what they are talking about! My own take on your weapon is that it is unlikely that the recipient served from 1884 to 1937, a total of 53 years but I stand to be corrected? May I suggest that the recipient may have died in 1937 at which time a sabre, of Imperial vintage was re etched to reflect personal dates rather than military dates? Perhaps he, the recipient, had served in more than one regiment but was honoured by his later, infantry regiment but with the inscription on a more relevant sabre rather than an Imperial sword to the TR period? This could explain the blank langet with holes for a fitted embellishment? I have several similar sabres with blank obverse langets and would suggest that the langet possibly carried a Guard Star or other Imperial device rather than a generic device, cannon, sabres or lances etc? With the abdication of the Kaiser in 1918 many swords and sabres were defaced by the removal of Imperial insignia but not usually regimental etchings? To me the original etching is distinctly Imperial however, the dedication is undoubtedly of TR period as shown by the date. Further, I would suggest that the etching flanking the dedication panel has a distinctly TR look to it??

    In all, you have a high quality and very unusually etched Imperial/TR item in my humble opinion.

    Regards Michael R

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