Carl Eickhorn Army Sword

**reneblacky** · 01-25-2011, 08:16 AM

by Swordfish

Believe it or not, of the many+ heer sabers I own, I actually do not own the 1734.

As was mentioned, the piece is a zeiten, nr 1734 in the eickhorn field marshall series. typically, this pattern is hilted in aluminum. With respect to yours, I cannot tell. I own the 1st gen dovehead coumterpart, the 1735 derff in brass..early example of the pattern.

Scarcity? Not scarce but not overly common either. Can you take a pic under indirect natural sunlight? False lighting can be misleading.

T

Light out side is getting dim but will do tomorrow
Cheers for your input

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 01-25-2011 08:16 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Swordfish** · 01-25-2011, 08:23 AM

Ill follow up manana after you post the additional pics. For my opinion n value, pm me......I don't like to make public qoutes any longer due to peoples hurt feelings in the past.

Forgive the grammer.....I'm on my smart phone and these tiny digital keyboards are not the easiest to master.

T

**reneblacky** · 01-25-2011, 08:50 AM

by Swordfish

Ill follow up manana after you post the additional pics. For my opinion n value, pm me......I don't like to make public qoutes any longer due to peoples hurt feelings in the past.

Forgive the grammer.....I'm on my smart phone and these tiny digital keyboards are not the easiest to master.

T

Here ya go new shots, changed some settings on the cam
Included is the original knot
To be honest I'm not fussed about value hehehe my Wife has commandeered it, she loves my edged weapons

**Adrian Stevenson** · 01-25-2011, 08:55 AM

Hi René, you are talking to the right guy with Tom

When it comes to Heer swords he is my first port of call.

Cheers, Ade.

**Swordfish** · 01-25-2011, 08:21 PM

Hi Rene,
Good job with the pics. Photography can be difficult and artificial light is often deceiving with respect to collectibles.

Based on what i'm seeing, your piece is actually hilted in what appears to be brass, as opposed to aluminum. As you can see however, the sabers grip wire is aluminum, rather than brass. It's not unheard of to find brass pieces with aluminum grip wire, but just not as common a combination. I had mentioned last night that my current Eickhorn Nr 1735 Derff pattern, which is the dovehead counterpart of the Zeiten, is an early 1st generation example of the pattern. It's hilted in brass with 6 strand-double twisted brass grip wire, and also retains it's original leather fingerloop(allbeit the finger loop is broken) under the grip ferrule. It's a very very scarce configuration of the 1735 since it's a very early example of the pattern.

The gilting looks overall pretty good. There appears to be some spots which are now devoid of some of the original factory gilt. That's something i'd expect to see however. Generally speaking, brass hilted sabers just did not retain their factory gilt nearly as well as thier aluminum counterparts. That said, it appears though your Zeiten retains the majority of it though.

Piece looks to be in great condition overall. I don't see any cracks or chips in the celluloid grip and the blade appears to be in very good condition as well. Scabbard paint is clearly period and shows just enough wear to the paint to confirm it hasn't been touched up over the years.

Overall you have a winner there. The Zeiten and the Derff. are 2 patterns sought after by collectors because they are universally considered aesthetically attractive patterns produced by the Eickhorn firm. The P-guard utilizes the "flat knuckle bow" design which most saber collectors consider a attractive attribute. You've got the three stranded Heer saber officer knot as an accoutrement which is correct, and also adds a bit of value to her.

Your piece is nice. As I mentioned yesterday in my post, scarcity vs. commonality is somewhere in the middle. The piece is not scarce or rare, but by the same token it's not an overly common pattern like the ACS Nr 119. Demand for both the 1734 and the 1735 is usually somewhat high and they generally have no problem selling so long as pieces are in good shape...which yours appears to be.

Based on market conditions, the scarcity of the pattern, the demand for the pattern, and the condition of your saber, I would place value of the piece somewhere toward the higher end of the price range we discussed in our PM last night. When you choose to sell her, I don't anticipate you having a difficult time moving her. That said, your never can tell. I've seen some really strange things in the last couple years regarding the sale of sabers. I had seen a middle of the road ACS Nr 119 sell for around $675 while a friend's rather scarce Eickhorn Nr 1715 sold for less than $500 on ebay....which was a real shame (I would have loved to bid but I wouldn't have been able to buy his saber for that price in good faith being he's a collector friend). Still, I don't think you'll have a problem moving her.

With proper care and preservation techniques, the piece will continue to shine and retain it's attractive appearance. A little museum grade microcrystalline wax would be a useful tool with respect to preservation.

You may want to consider keeping her as a good, representative example of an Army officer saber. Besides, it sounds like you wife enjoys the piece and as well all know, it's important to keep our spouses placated.

I've included a pic of my Nr 1735 to illustrate the attributes I referred to above.

Regards,
Tommy "the gun"

**reneblacky** · 01-26-2011, 02:18 AM

by Swordfish

Hi Rene,
Good job with the pics. Photography can be difficult and artificial light is often deceiving with respect to collectibles.

Based on what i'm seeing, your piece is actually hilted in what appears to be brass, as opposed to aluminum. As you can see however, the sabers grip wire is aluminum, rather than brass. It's not unheard of to find brass pieces with aluminum grip wire, but just not as common a combination. I had mentioned last night that my current Eickhorn Nr 1735 Derff pattern, which is the dovehead counterpart of the Zeiten, is an early 1st generation example of the pattern. It's hilted in brass with 6 strand-double twisted brass grip wire, and also retains it's original leather fingerloop(allbeit the finger loop is broken) under the grip ferrule. It's a very very scarce configuration of the 1735 since it's a very early example of the pattern.

The gilting looks overall pretty good. There appears to be some spots which are now devoid of some of the original factory gilt. That's something i'd expect to see however. Generally speaking, brass hilted sabers just did not retain their factory gilt nearly as well as thier aluminum counterparts. That said, it appears though your Zeiten retains the majority of it though.

Piece looks to be in great condition overall. I don't see any cracks or chips in the celluloid grip and the blade appears to be in very good condition as well. Scabbard paint is clearly period and shows just enough wear to the paint to confirm it hasn't been touched up over the years.

Overall you have a winner there. The Zeiten and the Derff. are 2 patterns sought after by collectors because they are universally considered aesthetically attractive patterns produced by the Eickhorn firm. The P-guard utilizes the "flat knuckle bow" design which most saber collectors consider a attractive attribute. You've got the three stranded Heer saber officer knot as an accoutrement which is correct, and also adds a bit of value to her.

Your piece is nice. As I mentioned yesterday in my post, scarcity vs. commonality is somewhere in the middle. The piece is not scarce or rare, but by the same token it's not an overly common pattern like the ACS Nr 119. Demand for both the 1734 and the 1735 is usually somewhat high and they generally have no problem selling so long as pieces are in good shape...which yours appears to be.

Based on market conditions, the scarcity of the pattern, the demand for the pattern, and the condition of your saber, I would place value of the piece somewhere toward the higher end of the price range we discussed in our PM last night. When you choose to sell her, I don't anticipate you having a difficult time moving her. That said, your never can tell. I've seen some really strange things in the last couple years regarding the sale of sabers. I had seen a middle of the road ACS Nr 119 sell for around $675 while a friend's rather scarce Eickhorn Nr 1715 sold for less than $500 on ebay....which was a real shame (I would have loved to bid but I wouldn't have been able to buy his saber for that price in good faith being he's a collector friend). Still, I don't think you'll have a problem moving her.

With proper care and preservation techniques, the piece will continue to shine and retain it's attractive appearance. A little museum grade microcrystalline wax would be a useful tool with respect to preservation.

You may want to consider keeping her as a good, representative example of an Army officer saber. Besides, it sounds like you wife enjoys the piece and as well all know, it's important to keep our spouses placated.

I've included a pic of my Nr 1735 to illustrate the attributes I referred to above.

Regards,
Tommy "the gun"

Thank You Most Kindly Tommy,

That is a impressive reply and most informative and I see you are "The Sword Guy"
And again thanks for your time on this subject!

**Swordfish** · 01-26-2011, 03:39 AM

No problem Rene.

If ya' want to jazz her up a bit without the application of any harsh or abrassive chemicals, a very light application of a homemade sudsy amonia concoction would really brighten up the hilts gold colored gilting. It's a very safe practice and the only one I reccommend for cleaning Heer saber hilts.

Tom