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Imperial lionshead Artillery sword question

Article about: My friend has a Imperial lions head Artillery sword but the ruby eyes I think what is called claw set into the head like a ring not stuck in as normally seen is this unusual ?.

  1. #11

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    I see nothing amiss. This might be simply a period repair. Or even a post war replacement/restoration of 2 filched ruby eyes by an idiot GI thinking they were valuable. I would not worry overly about it.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

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  3. #12
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    Ok thanks do you think it's WW1 sword ?.

  4. #13

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    It looks to be pre-WWII.
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  5. #14

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    Of course 'in hand' would make it much easier, but from what I've seen and what's been reported I think it could be a branch of the Weyersberg family that 'dropped off the radar' at the time of "The Great Depression". A couple of the (other) things that lead me in that direction - the grip material not being sharkskin. Another being my admittedly very limited look at the blade which may be plain (?), and looking like a later type of plating(?). Or maybe some additional photos will show something else??? Best Regards, Fred

  6. #15
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    imo an imperial sword looking at the makermark.
    The inset of the eyes looks period to me, nothing out of the ordinary.

    Ger

    Fred the interbellum period would fit in fine looking at the grip you might well be right

  7. #16
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    Here's a couple more pics blade length is 30" and is plain.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #17
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    [QUOTE=Frogprince;1665758]Of course 'in hand' would make it much easier, but from what I've seen and what's been reported I think it could be a branch of the Weyersberg family that 'dropped off the radar' at the time of "The Great Depression". A couple of the (other) things that lead me in that direction - the grip material not being sharkskin. Another being my admittedly very limited look at the blade which may be plain (?), and looking like a later type of plating(?). Or maybe some additional photos will show something else??? Best Regards, Fred[/QUOTE

    When did the Germans stop using sharkskin on there sword grips ?.

  9. #18

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    Hi, May I add my two penny worth into the discussion please? From what I can see in the photos your sword is a pre 1918 Artillery officer's sabre. I am basing the dating on several points, these being the scabbard suspension ring which appears to be fixed? If this is so and the scabbard belongs to the sword, it would suggest that it is pre WWI as I believe fixed rings ceased to be used post War. Further, TR swords tend to have light weight blades as they were not intended for combat use and your sword looks like it has a larger and heavier blade. Better photos would help!! The lion head and hilt fittings have an altogether more "rustic" and robust look about them again leaning toward Imperial and the grip also looks more like polished wood than plastic?? Grips and covers were at the discretion of the purchaser.

    If you view the reverse langet it bears a shield with a Knights Helm over it (at least that is what it looks like?). This was a common feature on WKC hilts even when the blades are unmarked. The Knight's Helm was the logo of several derivatives of the Kirschbaum companies which eventually amalgamated with the Weyersberg family of producers whose logo was and still is a Knight's Helm, in 1883 to form WKC. Initially both logos appeared in juxter position over the initials WKC but eventually the King's head was dropped.

    Your blade is marked "Weyersberg and Co" which sounds like it could be pre amalgamation however, the incorporation of the Knight's Helm on the reverse langet would indicate to me that the sabre is of post 1883 production by the firm of WKC. Have you looked under the langets for a trade mark?? If not, you should as a trade mark should positively identify the period of manufacture. I would suggest that Weyersberg in the context of your sword is just a derivative of the WKC firm. Although placing the manufacturer's title on the sword spine is not common practice it is none-the-less not rare.

    One final point I would like to make. As some of our other members have mentioned, photographs of high quality are critical to the correct identification of collectables. Idealy, they should be taken in good light without a flash, be square on and show as much detail as possible. The more you take, the easier it is to identify specifics.

    Apologies if this sounds like a lecture!!!! I am trying to help.

    Hope this is of help with best wishes Michael Ryan

  10. #19

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    First my compliments to Ger for the use of interbellum which I think adds a nice touch to the discussion. As for the question of when was sharkskin discontinued the answer is 1916 for the government issued Prussian Infantry Officers swords (IOD89 - Kriegsmodell), which not only eliminated the sharkskin covered grips but also the brass hilts (with civilian sector manufacturing also forced to turn to alternatives). But this Artillery Officer's sword seems to have a combination of the two with the grip material to me still looking to be a synthetic/plastic. Best Regards, Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #20
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    Interesting point on the scabbard because although the sword is a snug fit in it the scabbard it seems to long for the sword blade being 32" not including the drag but the sword blade length only being 30" ?.
    The scabbard is fixed ring as mentioned apart from being not post WW1 does it also indicate NCO issue ?.

    Mike

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