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One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn

Article about: Alan dared me to top my Great SA dagger by Gebr.Torley.....well it had to be something special I guess this one will do, most of you will not even know they exist. This is one bird you will

  1. #21
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    Default Re: One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn

    Well Horst,

    that's given me a small heartattack
    I'll have to talk to the seller.....
    Thx Horst for the info,
    guess the hottest girl in the class wasnt that hot.
    Ger

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn

    Gerrit - I know your feeling, years ago,many years ago I also purchased one of these with the heavy brass and it was a real awakening when I was told it was a very good repo -I guess I should have known something was up based on the price I got it at. I really couldn't believe that it was a repo as the workmanship was outstanding -BUT! - I was quick to get myself lots of reference material before I went after another one. A good reference for the blade collector is "Reproduction Recognition" both volume 1 &2 by Frederick J. Stephens - he also notes that these swords were copied using authentic sword blades & scabbards from army swords adding a new made hilt in cast brass.
    Hope you can work it out with the seller.
    Best
    Horst
    "He who hesitates is lost - is not only lost but miles from the next exit"

  4. #23
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    Default Re: One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn

    Eagle claws on the wreath look ?

  5. #24
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    Default Re: One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn

    Gerrit - the portepee on your sword is also not correct, have attached a picture from Johnson,s book "Edged Weapons Accouterments of Germany" reflecting the proper portepee for either the justice or prison sword. I should note that also the Heer officers portepee was sometimes worn as probably stocks of the correct type were not always available.
    The one on your sword looks like a customs type??

    Horst

    One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn
    "He who hesitates is lost - is not only lost but miles from the next exit"

  6. #25

    Default Re: One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn

    and this is the reason why the WRF excells!!...........Thank you Horst for your knowledge with these swords. Regards Larry
    It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!! - Larry C

    One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C

    “The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill

  7. #26
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    Default Re: One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn

    Ger,


    Bad Buzz , hope you get your money refunded.


    Regards Mac 66.

  8. #27

    Default Re: One of the rarest Third Reich Swords: May I introducea mint Prison/Justiz Official Sword by Eickhorn

    There's no justice....There's just us.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  9. #28
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    With great respect to Horst, he and others are mistaken about these swords. According to Thomas M. Johnson's "German Swords of World War II: A Photographic Reference", Volume Three (2006), both the Prison Official and Justice Official swords were introduced on 10 August 1936 and ceased production 31 December 1941, due to the exigencies of the war, so they certainly were not late introductions.

    Early production of both types had solid brass hilts plated in either gold or silver, but some manufacturers did use aluminum in later production. On pages 738 and 739 of his book, Colonel Johnson has a photo of a gilt Eickhorn Prison Official sword of early vintage which he specifically describes as being "...of early, gilted (sic) brass construction."

    The sword is in the famous collection of Dr. peter Verbruggen of Belgium, so its authenticity is unassailable. Therefore, the notion that these beautiful swords were only made with aluminum hilts and never brass is just a collector myth. Don't take my word for it - consult Johnson's reference.
    Last edited by Larry C; 01-20-2018 at 12:09 AM.

  10. #29
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    Quote by rala2 View Post
    With great respect to Horst, he and others are mistaken about these swords. According to Thomas M. Johnson's "German Swords of World War II: A Photographic Reference", Volume Three (2006), both the Prison Official and Justice Official swords were introduced on 10 August 1936 and ceased production 31 December 1941, due to the exigencies of the war, so they certainly were not late introductions.

    Early production of both types had solid brass hilts plated in either gold or silver, but some manufacturers did use aluminum in later production. On pages 738 and 739 of his book, Colonel Johnson has a photo of a gilt Eickhorn Prison Official sword of early vintage which he specifically describes as being "...of early, gilted (sic) brass construction."

    The sword is in the famous collection of Dr. peter Verbruggen of Belgium, so its authenticity is unassailable. Therefore, the notion that these beautiful swords were only made with aluminum hilts and never brass is just a collector myth. Don't take my word for it - consult Johnson's reference.
    Welcome to the Forum Rala2. This sword has been on my radar for over 25 years. Much like anything else it is not a myth but there has always been questions for decades about the brass version. Should be some interesting discussions that can be had and in a professional manner with good content and data to support the discussions. Be well and again! Welcome!

    Rossi
    Last edited by Larry C; 01-20-2018 at 12:10 AM.


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  11. #30
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    Thanks for the warm welcome Rossi, as well as your thoughtful comments regarding this pattern of sword. I too have been an admirer of these eagle-head swords since I started to collect edged weapons in the early 1980s, and I also ran into the controversy of aluminum versus brass hilts.

    Most of the detractors of the brass hilt versions seem convinced that these swords were introduced in 1942 which, as Johnson's research indicates, is far from the truth. Also, basic logic can be applied in this case.

    I know of no standard pattern Third Reich sword other than later production Luftwaffe officer swords that were made with aluminum hilts, and in 1936 all swords, both civil and military were being constructed with sand-cast, hand finished brass hilts since brass was cheap, abundant and not yet a restricted war material. Why would there be such a radical departure from the norm for just these two types of sword, which were identical in design save for the plated finishes?

    It also makes no sense at all to explain away the gilt brass early Prison Official sword I cited in Johnson's book by arguing, "Well, maybe original early gold Prison Official swords were made in brass, but all Justice official swords were aluminum and therefore brass versions are repros!" Just a little food for thought...
    Last edited by Larry C; 01-20-2018 at 12:11 AM.

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