Panther head with no marks/rubies. Fake or real?
Hi everyone! Came across an interesting pantherhead with no rubies or marks. Great condition, almost too good... Being sold by a reputable dealer in Italy (north of 1300E). They say the hilt is a bit loose, scabbard probably repainted. I'm confused by the eyes, and that protrusion on the head (probably the source of "looseness"). What do you guys think?
Well,I don't think it left factory like that.
And the etch looks too shallow.
I don't like it
Oh No......now the Swords too ??
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
by stingray
Sadly it's true. Not nearly as much as the dismountable types (easy to take apart) unfortunately from time to time the faking "plague" has also infected Swords for years.Oh No......now the Swords too ??Best Regards, Fred
Yes that engraving is too kinda sketchy, but I was completely puzzled by that thing sticking out of the head, it appears to have some threads on it but hard to tell. All other panther heads I've seen online have that area as solid metal cast, nothing to indicate a removable part...
Also are there any recorded examples of panther heads not having rubies (by design)? Also is it at all common not to have any marks on the blade at all, considering the engravings and the rest make it more of a higher-end sword comparing to typical doveheads?
That piece emerging from the head would appear to be a screw in cap to the tang. But if the hilt is loose it may have been knocked downwards pushing that cap out. A loose hilt should be enough reason (if not the price!) to move on, but the etching is poor and not to Solingen factory standard.
A time period/maker variable, many pommel buttons were swaged into place over a peened tang, and then engraved to match the surrounding decorations. Less common sometimes the tang itself was peened in place and then engraved to match. Here without a better/closer look I'm not sure just what was done - but very confident that the sword did not leave the factory looking like it does. Best Regards, Fred
i wouldn't buy it neither ..
K.
Hi Chris, I have had a look at your sword and to say that it does not impress me, is not to say that it is a copy in my opinion. I am well aware that swords have been copied post war and that originals have been etched post war. Whilst I agree with Fred and most of the other comments, I would suggest several possibilities for your sword as it stands.
1 I do not care for the etching but hands on inspection would be a far safer way of formulating a true opinion. Verdict open.
2 There are several methods for the securing of a tang to a pommel most of which have been covered above. These include:
a. The tang protrudes through the pommel and is peened over to secure the backstrap. Verdict, very common but not appropriate in your sword.
b. Tang cut short and a brass extension brazed on which is again peened over the head and sometimes left plain or etched to match the hair of the animal. Verdict very possible.
c. Tang threaded with a brass cap screwed into position to hold the hilt firm. In order to use this method, a pair of small round holes are usualy present to facilitate tightening with a special pronged spanner. Unless there is a method of tightening which I can not see then the verdict would be unlikely.
d. There are several other methods of fitment which do not interfere with the integrity of the animal's head. Verdict very unlikely.
3 With regard to the protrusion, I would suggest, as Fred says, it is very unlikely that it left the factory looking like that! I would consider it more likely that the sword has been dropped in its scabbard from some height, possibly an upper floor window? Given that it landed on the scabbard drag, it is very possible that the impact has lifted or rather forced the hilt to lift thus forcing the brass peened insert to be slightly dislodged and rendering the hilt loose?? Verdict very possible.
4. Glass eyes. These were an option open to the purchaser at an additional cost on most models. Verdict, not a problem.
5. Scabbard, repainted. Unless you are a purist, these things happen, scratch your car, repaint it? Verdict, not a problem.
6 Overall hilt condition. Patina look good and general wear and tear look from the photographs to be consistent and contemporary. Verdict favourable.
7. Lack of a trade mark. some of the poorest original swords that I have seen have been devoid of markings! Conversely, some of my best swords are also devoid of trade marks. The stamping of a trademark on a dud is common. Verdict not a problem.
My comments are only suggestions and personal opinions born of handling swords over the past few years. I would welcome and value constructive arguments. My overall verdict on this weapon would be open given the fact that without handling it it is not that easy or simple to give a definitive statement either way. My advice would be an open mind but buyer beware.
Hope my ramblings help.
Regards Michael R
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