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WH sword with left rotated svastika. Helps needed

Article about: Hello, need help with this item. I wonder why svastica is on another side. Use to there were some rumors, it is very early production...This is second piece I ever seen...Thanks all for help

  1. #41


    Quote by stakeside View Post
    FROGPRINCE.....I suggest that you need to logically look at the images posted instead of discussing whether angels have sex, as is said in Italian.....signed.....Doug.
    Quote by stakeside View Post
    I am laughing so hard, beer came out of my nose.....Doug

    In Genesis it is said that GOD made man in his own image. When Doug looked in the mirror, did GOD make a mistake or a joke ? ? ?

    Complicated it's probably a topic for another day, and possibly more obvious to arms and generalist collectors - I think there is some underestimation of when the factory personnel losses started with the multiple mobilizations in waves, and how fast the quality in multiple areas went down. Voos with no known Wehrmacht contracts was undoubtedly at the lower end of the scale of who was going to get the resources - as compared to the “big dogs” like Hörster, Eickhorn, WKC etc. Something that doesn't conflict with the published history of the effort to balance the military versus civilian sectors competition for resources. Or published information such as Himmler writing a directive in 1941 stating that there were to be no more awards on his SS swords because of steel quotas (delayed, it was published later well ahead of 1943). But the major issue I see with some of the evaluations here so far is comparing early quality production with later less refined production, and the lack of specific Voos characteristics. Does anyone else have some early Voos examples to contribute? Best Regards, Fred

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  3. #42


    Hi All, I hope that you do not mind me putting in an appearance on this thread. I received a message a few days ago from Peter asking my opinion on the sword currently under discussion and sent the following message in response:

    "Hi Peter, Thank you for your message and link to the sword in question. In Britain, the sword is said to be modeled on the 1796 pattern cavalry sabre or in Germany the Blucher sabel. The sword appears in many ways to be German which at first glance it does. However, my suggestion is that it was made in Germany but as an export model possibly for the Finnish Army? The reverse swastika is called a SAUWASTIKA and more usually associated with Buddhism. Back to the sword, Emil Voos made some unusual swords but I have never seen one quite like yours. I have a German sword in my collection which looks very Germanic and was manufactured in Solingen but bears the etching "Uruguay" on the blade and I have seen others from other countries. The pommel, backstrap, knuckle guard and eagle all appear, at least to me, to be non standard for a German army sword and the reverse swastika is part of the design and not an error.

    I would suggest that the sword is not for German military use and more than that I can not say. My suggestion to you would be to show it on the forum as there are several very switched on sword collectors from around the world on this forum and one of them may have the definitive answer. Sorry that I can not positively answer your quest but thank you for asking it!! If I can be of any help in future Peter, please feel free to contact me."

    Having scanned through the previous correspondence on this thread and re visited the photographs, my opinion remains extant but with the additional options that the sword could be a parts piece assembled post war and bearing a spurious and poorly cast SAUWASTIKA and sad eagle to get around any swastika ban or possibly even a Chinese 4th Reich fantasy item. The only facts that I am sure of are that I would not buy it and that in all honesty, I haven't got a clue what it is!! Re my mention of the Finnish military, having looked at their emblem on aircraft etc, a blue static swastika, the mention is probably totally erroneous?

    Sorry if I am treading on any toes.

    With thanks, regards and best wishes Michael R

  4. #43
    CBH is online now


    With this Late War argument might I ask when they stopped making dress swords in the TR?
    I don't believe they continued to 1945 with the allies on the doorstep having to rely on Dyslexic Engravers.
    Also whats with the Japanese Chrysanthemum on the hilt?
    Cheers Chris

  5. #44


    Hi Chris, I am inclined to support your questions but you know what they say, Dyslexia rules KO. The Chrysantheum on the other hand could be very indicative of Chinese manufacture as I have seen a number of "German Commanders" swords on EBay Canada for sale in China bearing the Japanese flower. Perhaps the maker was both dyslexic and lacking in geographical knowledge? Sorry about the flippancy.

    Cheers MR

  6. #45


    Well is that the last word on it?

  7. #46


    I start to have bad feelings about this sword, oh sorry, not about the sword, but about my knowledge about edged weapons I just can´t believe that it is postwar produced piece.... but I also know that we can´t judge that if the sword is authentic or not, only because I can´t believe

    If we vote, I will stand behind this sword, I still think that it is authentic piece.

    Have a nice Friday, and when you enjoy tasty beer, think about our discussion

    Best regards


  8. #47


    Hello Michael, I’ve got some things to do so I will try to be brief while addressing most of the matters. In the not too distant past I had the opportunity to examine one of the “Chrysanthemum” sabers by Voos, and it was early German in brass with a conventional Reichsadler and what I call an Art Deco design hilt. On the WAF one collector stated that Voos had a reputation for designing “funky” swords so that may be another way to describe some of them. With that said, the one I posted that Tom liked is through and through conventional (not “funky”) made to a high standard also in brass. He was the expert on the “P” guard TR era German Army Officer’s swords, also having extensive period references, and before he dropped out of sight was very helpful in that area.

    1) Finnish with a Reichsadler? Maybe the argument could be made for the Swastika with a Finnish Lion - but a Reichsadler? 2) Chinese? These swords have been around long, long, before the door to China was opened. Which is not to say that new ones cannot be made but the quality, manufacturing techniques, and honest age etc. is lacking.

    To Chris, If anyone can show me any legitimate 1943 dated RZM blades. Then maybe I can extend my timeline of 1942 for the termination of series production of civilian items from Solingen beyond that. But until then for me it’s 1942.

    PS: To Michael. I’m posting an arguably “funky” looking Reichsadler on an early TR brass Lionhead knucklebow by Voos, and have asked for anyone who has one to post their early Voos sabers for comparison. Do you by any chance have any for comparison? Best Regards, Fred
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture WH sword with left rotated svastika. Helps needed  

  9. #48


    Hi Anderson, Only if no one else has an opinion or better, evidence one way or the other?????????????????????

    Cheers Michael

  10. #49
    CBH is online now


    Thank you Fred for the date information.
    Cheers Chris

  11. #50


    Hi Peter, Please do not misunderstand me. I am not identifying this sword as a modern copy or a heap of Chinese junk. The point I would make is that in order to finalise the question proof positive needs to be brought forward. Hilt fittings are castings in the main ergo can be used to create molds to facilitate further castings. Grips can and are also cast in plastic. The hard bits are the scabbard and blade but if someone has these two items then the reproduction of a sword is relatively simple. Whilst I would not condemn a sword as "wrong" or indeed original, I would say whether or not I would buy it. In this case I would not. Sorry. However, if you like it and are happy with its authenticity, it is your money to spend.

    Cheers Michael

    Regards Michael

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