What Kind of sword is this? Yea I know its German WWII.

**Frogprince** · 09-28-2010, 08:12 PM

That is what I would expect to see as well. With the marking underneath the langet with an orientation that permits the logo being able to be read holding the sword with the point up instead of down. Instead of tilted outside the langet, with what seems to be a two piece set of stamps. FP

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-28-2010 08:12 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Swordfish** · 09-29-2010, 01:24 AM

The examples both Fred and I posted, illustrate that the Ram dist. markings are contained under the reverse langets, meaning the markings on the blade were applied pre-assembly. The Rath markings on the saber in question could have been applied any time after the saber was assembled- meaning in 1942, 1972 or in 2002 for that matter. The location of the stamping is below the sabers ricasso and not in a spot covered by the langet. In short, the location of the stamp does not preclude the possibility that the stamp was applied post-war. We just don't know and won't know.

**ncblksmth1** · 09-30-2010, 02:38 PM

I fully understand what you have been getting at now. On a side point was the marking in question ever a real mark by Hermann Rath?

**davejb** · 09-30-2010, 04:41 PM

Gents, i have found this thread fascinating and very informative and technical, so from a purely outsiders point of view as one who knows very little about swords per se, i have to rely on your goodselves knowledge, however i look at items as i would a crime scene ie forensically, being an ex cop its something that sticks with you to a certain degree, Amongst the photos shown, the solingen stamp on both period and poss post war applied stamping, appear to have a trait in common, that is the N in solingen, both appear to be missing part of the downward stroke of the N. Would the fakers in the early seventies and onwards be able to produce the near same dies as the originals, bearing in mind that with the early periods of faking helmets it was quite crude in production and they are quite easily recognised as such, it would be interesting to have your points of view on this, thanks dave

**ncblksmth1** · 10-08-2010, 04:12 AM

Dave. I believe the markings are not post war but applied after production. It has been said the original markings were removed and these applied. However as you point out the traits of the marking "N" are the same so what was referred to as real and post war applications must have been relatively the same time using the same dies. If the original markings were removed then why werent the "NEW MARKINGS" put in the same place. I believe this is not an SS sword but made under and by Herm, Rath and the SS and this mark is some sort of quality stamping. I do find it funny that noone else has weighed in.

Conspiracy theory. What if the person who marked these swords is on this board and owns one and wants to make everyone believe its real and discredit the others. LOL just kidding.

**Frogprince** · 10-08-2010, 11:03 PM

by ncblksmth1

Dave. I believe the markings are not post war but applied after production. It has been said the original markings were removed and these applied. However as you point out the traits of the marking "N" are the same so what was referred to as real and post war applications must have been relatively the same time using the same dies. If the original markings were removed then why werent the "NEW MARKINGS" put in the same place. I believe this is not an SS sword but made under and by Herm, Rath and the SS and this mark is some sort of quality stamping. I do find it funny that noone else has weighed in.

Conspiracy theory. What if the person who marked these swords is on this board and owns one and wants to make everyone believe its real and discredit the others. LOL just kidding.

Maybe I’m missing something, but with this thread I only count four swords posted. A Krebs Police sword. The “Rath” SS marked brass hilted saber which is what the discussion is about (with an additional image of it posted on another thread in this forum). The Rath Police sword I posted. And the partial view of a Rath saber that Tom posted. (Not recalling any images posted on either of the WAF threads.)

So I’m a little confused about the discussion of an “N”, and what it’s supposed to mean, if it’s actually just different views of the same sword. As for the two swords posted with the SS markings, to me they don’t look the same, with a lot more than just the letter “N” being affected. Like some other letters, and especially the borders of the four sided 'box' on the saber - as in the images they look quite a bit broader/deeper on the "Rath" saber.

But everyone can make their own judgement of what they see. Below is a side by side image using the latest one posted (from the other thread in this forum). Next to an earlier posted grayscale image of the “Rath” saber marking. With a Rath Police sword marking to the far right for comparison purposes.

PS: As for what’s underneath the langets (if anything) that IMO is secondary to the use of a proprietary Krebs hilt. As unmarked blades on German Army officer’s swords as a group are not uncommon. And unmarked swords have been, and would be the perfect choice as candidates for adding some markings. FP