01-04-2014 10:31 PM
well... interesting thread for sure.
among all the good comments, two i think sum up the thing (and i obviously paraphrase here):
1) Bob Coleman: it is certainly possible this ring was given to the Fuehrer. I personally can not and would not argue against it.
2) SteveR: nails it. the man can judge jewelry. the ring itself is average. as a Cartier shopper with a small pile of rings from that firm, this thing is way, waaaaay out of the league of fine jewelry.
if, as Bob Coleman posits as possible, it was in the basement among another pile of gifts, i find myself in the uncomfortable position of having something in common with the Fuehrer: it would be in my basement too.
but this is just me. i'm sure there are other collectors with a greater fondness for it.
edit: let me just add that, as scout points out, although an item can bring spirited debate, none of it is "personal". i read all contributions to this forum and i respect you all. the only thing i don't respect is the occasional name calling as seen elsewhere recently.
I think, WITHOUT being an expert in gem stones or jewelry, that the story itself sounds entirely plausible. And why would all of Hitler's posessions have been of the highest quality possible? As noted he received all sorts of kitschy gifts, from knitted works with swastikas from patriotic grandmas to the finest of jewelry/artifacts... why would it be so hard to believe that there was some middleground to the quality of the items he was gifted? Were these poor old patriotic grandmas sent to the eastern front as well? I realize that these comments are made partly in jest but they get old real fast... personal opinion.
Also, I too think this might very well have been in storage among many other artifacts, perhaps handled once or whatever and then stored and forgotten about... obviously not something he would have worn on a daily basis given the perceived nature of the man but why it wouldn't have been gifted to him due to a "lesser" quality of craftsmanship than that of other pieces is beyond me. Also, how many times it was worn is of no importance as it seems to me that this is the sort of item that would/will sell on the merit that it was once in Adolf Hitlers posession alone and I, personally, have no problem with that. What one woukd call a moot point, I guess.
But, yeah... my opinion or "two cents", if you will.
I think there's every likelihood it was hitlers, he would have been presented with all kinds of things. Have a look at our current royals, how many rooms would be filled will gifts presented to them by companies, sporting clubs, charities, school kids, individuals etc......they must have heaps of gear of varying quality, I can't see why hitler would be any different. I don't think he'd of run around wearing much of this stuff though.
If you don't mind me asking ajax3985, You keep mentioning documentation on this ring.
Would you mind sharing it with us?
brutus. this is the ring that came up for sale in september 2013, and was expected to sell in auction for 70 thousand pounds.
and it sold for 55,000 U.S.
What a ridiculous amount, a basic SS ring looks better than this one in my opinion that is. Maybe he owned this piece and got it as a gift some time as sandgroper states, but that he actually wore it I find very unlikely.
Peter Carl Fabergé on crack.....
Well, the one (& possibly only) member here that would be able to tell if it was real or not, with his radiomammagrams or whatever they were, got booted off today - so there you go, we`ll never know.
What i think i can tell you, is that i think i know why the maker hid his name & details on the bottom, on a small, piece of hastily cut silver, that was screwed on to a piece of wood, and not on the actual object: I think it may possibly be due to the fact that he may of been somewhat ashamed of the quality of his work here. Maybe what we are looking at here, is the actual prototype of the real mcoy? that would be even rarer - or not no maybe less, maybe he made several attempts.
Maybe we shouldn't read too much into minute images of old books (that too are as: zitat - rare as hens teeth) that are supposed to show this ring, or stories that are supposed to back it up? none of us lost any cash on this one, and so we wont be needing to hide our latest buy from the wife "You paid WHAT.. for THAT!!!!" so let`s just be happy for the new owner. May he wear it with pride.
The documentation are two period catalogs that are not my property, an excerpt was posted by Odal. The lineage is known as are the other items that came with this piece. The pistol went to West Point and not sure that was part of the group, the salver and the stained glass were separate but the salver may have been part of this particular group and that was acquired by a known collector. The picture of Hitlers mother is in California in a collection that is also well known. It was taken by a veteran, changed hands once and ended up in the hands of Mr. Biley. So there is your chain, the documentation for the ring itself I can't post and to my knowledge is with the purchaser of the ring but its about as strong as you can get as far as provenance in this market.
The ring itself is not properly photographed, I do not know why the stones look pink, but I can assure you they are not that color and maybe it was the type of light or some other anomaly that gives the stones that appearance. I am not a gemologist but I was on the lot along with several others and was quite diligent and the stones are red not pink. The owner who was known to several of the old guard by all accounts was a hard ass and closing any deals with him was impossible. However he was also diligent and coveted these items, he went and had the stones looked at for identification and had a difficult time of it apparently. After much time and expense he was able to get them identified as what I state them to be, and the stones are certified as Pigeon Blood Rubies. Apparently after the mans death which did not allow for much time the family was either unaware or had no possession of some of these items and papers as it belonged to others. What they did have is mentioned in the auction listing but the bulk of it was outside the owners hands.
So when they auction went there was much unsaid and the rubies looked pink, why? I don't know but I do know he coined out and spent time researching those stones, the ring is not platinum and had a powder coat originally and it was not a gift from a granny somewhere but apparently a group or consortium of jewelers or tradesman. I moved on the lot but held back in the end if not for any other reason but a lack of a hardcore valuation and thought the piece might fall short as only a few guys know the pieces, enough so that it still went strong however.
But, the docs do not belong to me in short and all I can tell you is that I was most diligent tracking that ring and digging into its history and I would imagine that this piece will be shown at some time down the road with its proper corresponding documentation that has been being gathered for the last few months it would seem. Not the prettiest piece, but it is legitimate. That's the short of it but more than most pieces have and I would guess the owner has most of it by now.