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Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

Article about: Hi guys Ive brought items off this person before and he now has a uboat ring for sale. I,m trying to find info on the ring but their doesnt appear to be much around. From what I understand t

  1. #11

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    It is 100% fake but not because of the "Engelland". It was a famous march in 1940 "Wir fahren gegen Engelland" (Engelland - "the land of angels" in German).

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  3. #12

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    Thanks for help.
    I think i,ll keep away from rings from now on and stick to my helmets/daggers.
    I would hate to think how many collectors have repo junk in their collections and dont have any idea that its faked etc.
    I was postive it was real etc.
    Thanks again
    Peter

  4. #13

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    Quote by Frundsberg View Post
    It is 100% fake but not because of the "Engelland". It was a famous march in 1940 "Wir fahren gegen Engelland" (Engelland - "the land of angels" in German).
    That's right, although the lyrics of the song actually date back to before World War I. A bit of trivia: After Rudolf Hess' flight to Britain and his subsequent fall from grace and denunciation as a madman, there was even a political rhyme/"whisper joke" referencing this famous propaganda song:

    "Es klingt ein Lied im deutschen Land:
    'Wir fahren gegen Engeland!'
    Doch wenn dann einer wirklich fährt,
    dann wird er für verrückt erklärt
    ."

    ("A song is heard in the German land:
    'Towards* England we go!'
    But if someone actually goes there,
    he is declared insane
    .")


    (* "gegen" can mean both "towards" and "against")

  5. #14

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    I found from youtube original song with a video with these fake rings. Enjoy: Marschlied "Wir fahren gegen Engelland" Matrosenlied - YouTube

  6. #15
    ?

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    Quote by Kiwipete View Post
    I think i,ll keep away from rings from now on and stick to my helmets/daggers.
    I would hate to think how many collectors have repo junk in their collections and dont have any idea that its faked etc.
    Peter
    Yes Peter, you will not be alone in choosing to ignore the various Third Reich rings that are available. It is a minefield. Most look like something that an "Alternative Clothing" shop would advertise.

    Regards,

    Carl



    p.s. Nice piece HPL, thank you for that.
    Experienced guide and published author leading detailed study trips to the former KZ sites of Nazi Germany. Contact for further details.

    www.concentrationcamptours.com

    www.concentrationcampmoney.com


    "maka akaŋl oyate maŋi pi ki le, tuweŋi wíyópeya oki hi sni"

  7. #16

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    So what does Engelland mean? The land of angels or England? Or is it the same?
    And which spelling is correct Andreas? With one L or with two? I'm asking because on the ring is written with 2 whilst you wrote it with 1.
    Looking for the photo albums of Leutnant Emil Freitag, 3. / G.R. 377

  8. #17

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    Quote by don_kihotis7 View Post
    So what does Engelland mean? The land of angels or England? Or is it the same?
    And which spelling is correct Andreas? With one L or with two? I'm asking because on the ring is written with 2 whilst you wrote it with 1.
    Good questions, Chris. Which, of course, means that I don't have a really good answer!

    Both spellings (with one and two "l"s) were definitely used in the Third Reich period, for this song as well as for the infamous "Bomben auf Engel(l)and" one. My subjective impression is that "Engeland" was the far more common one, though.

    (Just do a quick Google image search for "gegen Engeland" and "gegen Engelland" and you will find many period postcards, lyrics sheets, magazine covers etc. for both versions.)

    As for which is correct: None. Or both. They are not normal spelling, but poetic forms. In regular modern German, "England" is spelt just as it is in English. With "Engel" meaning "angel" and "Land" (obviously) meaning "land", the literal meaning of "Engelland" - with two "l"s - is actually "angel-land". Still, in the context of these Nazi propaganda songs, there is no question that "Engel(l)and" stands for "England".

    However, as I already mentioned, the song's history dates back to the pre-World War I era. Originally, this was a song/poem known as the "Matrosenlied" ("sailors' song), composed in 1910 by the staunchly patriotic journalist, author and poet Hermann Löns, who was killed in action as a war volunteer in 1914. (He also wrote the novel "Der Wehrwolf", which was highly popular in the Third Reich era.) While the song - which was already used for propaganda purposes in WW1 - directly references England and especially Germany's rivalling her dominion of the seas, it also mentions not returning home and death on the sea, and the slightly ambiguous lyrics of the refrain could be understood either way: Going up against England or going to the land of the angels, "gegen" meaning both "against" and "towards".

    By the way: The WW2-era melody to the lyrics was written by the well-known composer and RAD music officer Herms Niel, who - among many other marching songs - also composed "Erika".

  9. #18

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    Wow, mein freund.
    That was a 100% complete answer.
    Thanks for all these valuable information.
    Now i got the meaning of going against England or going (permanently) to the land of angels (in heaven).
    Looking for the photo albums of Leutnant Emil Freitag, 3. / G.R. 377

  10. #19

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    this is a new arrival of mine direct from vets family, this is a genuine engelland ring just posting to show that there are genuine ones of these amongst the tons of fakes rgds Dave
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  11. #20

    Default Re: Kreigsmarine U boat ring: real or not? Please help

    Totally different design though.
    Well done on your new purchase.
    It would be nice to have it's own thread.
    Looking for the photo albums of Leutnant Emil Freitag, 3. / G.R. 377

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