SS Honour Ring for discussion - named to 'Hahn'.

[mclenrd]

eBay is NOT the place to go for this sort of thing. come on now.

Latest developments:
1. CG got in touch with me after seeing my new photos and he now seems very interested.
2. There's a guy on WAF that flat out says my ring is fake. HAHAHA its so NOT.
3. I've gotten offers as well but not sure what to do yet. This is a good problem to have.
4. The Oktober 1944 Dienstaltersliste alone indicates eight men (named 'Hahn') who had the ring at this point. The one man on this list who did not have the ring on this date is Adolf.

[Sir Payne]

There a guy on WAF that flat out says my ring is fake.

That's usually what happens when people have no idea what they are talking about.

[Adrian]

eBay is NOT the place to go for this sort of thing. come on now.

Agreed, ebay is full of fake rings, SS or not.

Latest developments:
1. CG got in touch with me after seeing my new photos and he now seems very interested.

How strange! I wonder why he had a sudden change of mind? My advice would be to forget Gottlieb from the start. He will offer you a low price and make a killing when he offers it for re-sale, you would be lining his pockets.
You could give a fellow collector a chance to own a piece of history at a lower price than he would pay a dealer yet still make a decent sum of money for yourself.

2. There's a guy on WAF that flat out says my ring is fake. HAHAHA its so NOT.

Maybe he can explain his reasoning?

3. I've gotten offers as well but not sure what to do yet. This is a good problem to have.

Sell to the right person at the right time for the right money. Don't be pressured into a sale.

4. The Oktober 1944 Dienstaltersliste alone indicates eight men (named 'Hahn') who had the ring at this point. The one man on this list who did not have the ring on this date is Adolf.

Now you just have to narrow it down......

.

[mclenrd]

Being a collector myself, I'd much rather allow a collector an opportunity to own it but a collector needs to step up and be serious. I had one guy offer 2200 and asked the size (size 11) because he wanted to wear it! Not the type of person that should have it in my opinion. Anyway, CG said the ring looked better than he originally thought after seeing the newer photos. no reasoning why someone on WAF thought it was fake other him saying it was a "bad casting" and wished me good luck on the research (seemed like a jerky thing to say). Whatever... and narrowing down the ring is going to really difficult I think.

[Adrian]

It depends how much money you want. You know you're going to make a bloody good profit even if you did sell it at a collector's price. As a collector you should know how it feels to get a good deal and be the one offering it. All to often nowadays, integrity and decency come a poor second place to money. And people complain about society.
Do the right thing whatever you think that is.

Anyone who wants to wear a genuine SS Honour Ring is an a$$ and he would be shown the finger next to my ring finger for being such an idiot.

As for Craig Gottlieb, see the above words in bold.

[mclenrd]

haha! I think may take your advice.

It depends how much money you want. You know you're going to make a bloody good profit even if you did sell it at a collector's price. As a collector you should know how it feels to get a good deal and be the one offering it. All to often nowadays, integrity and decency come a poor second place to money. And people complain about society.
Do the right thing whatever you think that is.

Anyone who wants to wear a genuine SS Honour Ring is an a$$ and he would be shown the finger next to my ring finger for being such an idiot.

As for Craig Gottlieb, see the above words in bold.

[mclenrd]

more info... this is from Ross Kelbaugh of ssdolch.com


Thanks for the inquiry and congrats on your 1944 TK ring. Sorry to report that you ring will be very difficult if not impossible to narrow down to only one "Hahn" as a recipient as there are so many with this name. Below is an essay I have written about the difficulties of identifying TK rings from the 1940s. Hope you find it useful:

I have been receiving a number of requests recently for researching 1940s dated Totenkopfrings. I have disappointed a number of collectors when I have been unable to identify with certainty their specific ring recipient. In numerous cases, research has identified several possible candidates, but no one individual who, in my judgement, has been beyond a reasonable doubt. But not all have the same standards as I do. Below are some of the problems I have encountered when doing this research.

Problems with 1940s Totenkopfring Research

First: Since you only have a last name to go by, there can be several people who share that surname. What may seem to be an odd name to you may be more common than you think.

Second: The Stammkarte (service/personal record card) used initially for all SS personnel and the Führerstammkarten (created early in 1938) just for SS Officers have a place to designate if a TK ring was awarded, but it can be inaccurate in failing to record when a ring was given in the 1940s. Even if they do indicate the award of a ring, these cards do not indicate the year a ring was given.

Third: The SS-Dienstalterslistes during the 1940s may indicate receipt of a ring and appear to be pretty accurate in that regards, but, unlike the 1930s, not all SS Officers are listed. This makes it impossible to follow many SS Officers from year to year to see when a ring was awarded if one had been received.

Fourth: It is very rare (but not impossible) to find any additional paper documentation for the award of a TK ring being made in the personnel file. This would give the date of the award, but would not eliminate the other possible qualifying ring recipients with the same last name for reasons stated above.

Fifth: This is the real wild card. In 1939, all SS men with membership numbers under 10,000, regardless of rank, became eligible to receive the Totenkopfring. How many were subsequently distributed to enlisted men and NCOs and how many have 1940s dates?

Here is an example of a notification of the award of a 1940s TK ring when I was researching a ring with the surname “Specht” dated 1944. It is great to find these in a file as they establish that the award was made and provide the specific date. Unfortunately they arerarely encountered in the files. In this case, there was another “Specht” whose Führerstammkarte also indicated award of the ring. He had become an SS officer in 1940 so could he have received a ring dated 1944? How prompt was the award based on three years of service as an SS officer? There were two others with the surname “Specht” who became officers in 1940 whose records do not indicate the award. Both were still active in 1944. Could one of these be the ring recipient? All of this adds up to the fact, in my opinion, that it is often very difficult to determine beyond a reasonable doubt the recipient of a Totenkopfring during the 1940s. If the identity of the ring recipient is important to you and you are in the market for a ring, I would advise that you do the research a head of time. And if the ring already has “research” with it, it may be advisable to have it double checked. This is one of he reasons I like numbered SS daggers.

[Adrian]

Thanks for posting Ross' thoughts Matt. It's hard to disagree with his points. I guess many of us who don't get too involved with this degree of research are unaware of the lengths that you need to go to to find certain information.

Unless there is anymore information to be gleaned from the person/family you obtained it from this might have to be put down as an unknown.

Funny how the normally efficient Germans didn't number their SS rings against a name for the records. Especially how highly regarded these rings were that they had to be recovered and returned to Wewelsburg on the death of the recipient!

[Wagriff]

If Ross said so, then it's pretty much impossible -he's That good of a researcher! On that note....So,well, it's a shame that an exact match can probably never be determined, but then again, it could prove to be an tantalizing bit for your Selling point of view. "Maybe it belonged to"...or "It Could be one of several-and Some of them possibles are Infamous". The new owner will forever be doing the "What if" and "Just maybe it Could have been...". Regardless of the recipient's lack of clear ID, though, absolutely do continue on with having a Boyle certificate written up! It will Certainly pay for itself when selling!

[mclenrd]

Getting a COA is great but paying almost 300 dollars for him simply look at it seems ridiculous. I want to do it but for that much? I don't have that kind of money to front unfortunately.

The ring is genuine... I'm a collector willing to accept a price well below any dealer would. If I get a COA, then the price WILL go up. How many other authentic honor rings are for sale by another collector out there?