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SS Totenkopfring. Original??

Article about: Hallo there. A friend of mein is looking to buy one SS Totenkopfring wit an etui and urkunde vor Dr Otto Fritzel. Ist it 100% original?? Need help now becaus he is buying it tomorrow. Many t

  1. #1

    Exclamation SS Totenkopfring. Original??

    Hallo there. A friend of mein is looking to buy one SS Totenkopfring wit an etui and urkunde vor Dr Otto Fritzel. Ist it 100% original?? Need help now becaus he is buying it tomorrow. Many thanks.

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  3. #2

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    For such an investment your friend seems to be in a rush. With these rings they should be vetted among members to verify 100% authenticity.

    For me the first big red flag is i cannot find that date 21.12.38 as a legitimate issue date in Boyle's Honor Ring book. Another thing is the name Fritzel is not listed either in the 1938 roster awards. I will look again to double check but so far nothing is coming up with that name or date.

  4. #3

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    Many thanks Octavian. He ist dealing the ring over 1 month ago wit the seller and now he want pay tomorrow, but when he show me the fotos it looked me strange and I put here them for opinions of thie experts. I wait for more comments.

  5. #4

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    The bestowal date is correct, it's the winter solstice. In September 1936 it was ordered by Himmler for the SS Ehrenring to become an official award, and as such numerous new regulations came into being. One of these regulations was that the ring would only be awarded with four dates from that time onward. They were 20th April (20.4), 21st June (21.6), 9th November (9.11) and 21st December (21.12).

    There is a recorded ring known to be in existence today awarded to a man named Fritzel and the bestowal date of 21.12.38 is inscribed within it. Those are the only details I have. That of course is no proof of authenticity in this case though!

    The award document and ring box are interesting pieces, but I'm not well versed in paperwork, and the document, which is known as a 'type 5' if genuine is the earliest of that particular type I've seen.

    I shall await other opinions on this ring before I give my view, but it is a direct one.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #5

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    Many thanks Ned, it was a great contribute from you. In youyr opinion ist thie ring original?

  7. #6

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    Forgot to say, urkunde is the wasser mark KOH I NOOR.

  8. #7

    Default

    I can only offer the observation that Dr. Fritzel is listed in the 1938 SS-Dienstaltersliste (officers' seniority list) and that the name, rank, SS number and unit on the document are correct.

    The list does not have him as an Honor Ring holder yet, so the award date is plausible, too, as the list is for 1st December 1938 and thus wouldn't have an award made on 21st December.

    I cannot comment on the authenticity of the items themselves.

  9. #8

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    Hallo many thanks HPL2008! but I think I not unerstand well sorry, in your opinion the award date ist posible and the award itself ist possible to Dr Fritzel in 21st Dezember or not? ist there a chance the urkunde ist original? regards.

    Quote by HPL2008 View Post
    I can only offer the observation that Dr. Fritzel is listed in the 1938 SS-Dienstaltersliste (officers' seniority list) and that the name, rank, SS number and unit on the document are correct.

    The list does not have him as an Honor Ring holder yet, so the award date is plausible, too, as the list is for 1st December 1938 and thus wouldn't have an award made on 21st December.

    I cannot comment on the authenticity of the items themselves.

  10. #9

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    Quote by militaria1143 View Post
    but I think I not unerstand well sorry, in your opinion the award date ist posible and the award itself ist possible to Dr Fritzel in 21st Dezember or not?
    As Ned said, 21st Dec. 1938 is a known award date for SS Honor Rings, thus the date as such is possible. (Fake rings often have fantasy dates.)

    It is also plausible that Dr. Fritzel was actually awarded the ring on this specfic date:

    The SS-DAL shows that he did not yet have the ring on 1st Dec. 1938, so if he received an Honor Ring it must have been after that date.

    Moreover (I hadn't mentioned this before, but I was in a bit of a hurry this morning), the SS-DAL also shows that he was commissioned as an Untersturmführer on 15th Sept. 1935. Unless they met one of the various special criteria (such as bestowal of certain high awards), SS men who had joined after 30th Jan. 1933 qualified for the ring only after completing 3 years of service as an SS officer.
    His membership number implies a join date after 30th Jan. 1933 and we have seen that he became an officer on 15th September 1935, so Fritzel became eligible for the ring on 15th September 1938. The necessary application/approval/issuing procedure took a while, so a December 1938 award date fits nicely.


    Quote by militaria1143 View Post
    ist there a chance the urkunde ist original?
    As I said, I cannot make a qualified comment on the document.

    Sure enough, the general design and text as well as the contents (recipient data etc.) check out.

    Yet, if real, a matched set of ring, document and box (boxes are rarer than the rings themselves, by the way) would be quite a desirable, high-end grouping of substantial value. Faking it to a high standard would be worth the effort.

    Thus, you want a real expert opinion which I can't provide.

  11. #10

    Default

    so, it was only awarded on 4 days in a one year period, and an honor ring reference book does not have that date in it, I would look for a different book. HPL is stating that the name, rank, # and unit for this man is all correct. Weather or not document is original is not known. Paper items are very hard to authenticate by photos alone, but with all information being correct, you may be one step closer. I stay away from rings, but if one of the guys could authenticate the ring by the photos and info available, then the whole package starts looking better.

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