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Beltring purchases

Article about: Comrade iannima, Your Soviet Scale of Issue looks to be conforming to the projected Cultural Development curve laid down by Moscow Centre.

  1. #1

    Default Beltring purchases

    Here is what I found at Beltring. As I don't know a lot, please add any detail and comments
    A cotton M43 suit with high waistband trousers. I believe it is dated 1955. Please ignore the shoulder boards. Is this style with the breast pockets fully stitched on the outside for officer or for NCO?
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  3. #2

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    I also found this M43 tunic. The material is a gabardine VERY similar to the one used later for the M69 uniforms. Plastic buttons. The only markings are on a blue label inside:
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  4. #3

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    A small crown officer field cap in my size
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  5. #4

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    Nice buys.

    The date is indeed 1955.

    By this time, all ranks were wearing pockets on the Gym.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    Thank you Adrian!
    It suits my purposes precisely
    Can anybody tell me anything about the second tunic in woollen gabardine? It looks SOOO M69 except for the cut. I presume it to be an officer one. Are the shoulder boards I have on the cotton one above equally applicable?

  7. #6

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    Quote by iannima View Post
    Is this style with the breast pockets fully stitched on the outside for officer or for NCO?
    I believe this to be for NKVD - cotton; for soldiers.
    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  8. #7

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    I obviously don't know enough about this, but my guess is that by 1955 when Beria had been arrested and put on trial, and when it was been re-organised into what we came to know as the KGB, the NKVD may have had other things on its mind than the style of the uniforms worn by its soldiers...

    On the subject of the other tunic, a while ago I posted a photograph of a similar one that I had seen on Ebay and you advised me to leave it. I think it was Dimas who identified it as a 1970s Gym. Now this poses a few questions as to the appropriate shoulder boards to go on it. In the 1970s the M69 uniform regulations must have been in force. Does this mean that it should have M69 insignia? As you undoubtedly know the shoulder boards for the shirt will (more or less) fit. It would seem odd for instance that the purple/malino striped boards should be worn for infantry when the red stripe had instead become the norm for motorised infantry. Any thoughts?

  9. #8

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    Quote by iannima View Post
    I obviously don't know enough about this, but my guess is that by 1955 when Beria had been arrested and put on trial, and when it was been re-organised into what we came to know as the KGB, the NKVD may have had other things on its mind than the style of the uniforms worn by its soldiers...
    Pardon me, but I do not understand what you have written above...

    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  10. #9

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    Sorry I should have explained it better...
    Stalin died in March 1953, with the head of the NKVD/MGB Laurenty Beria briefly rising to power only to be put under arrest in June and eventually executed in December.
    The Fall of Beria marks the end of the unlimited power that the NKVD had held for so long. Indeed it was to be re-organised as a committee and not a ministry which mattered a lot in the Soviet Union.
    I appreciate that the style of the pockets of a uniform is a PHENOMENALLY trivial matter but my personal feeling is that in 1955 (when this uniform was produced), with the perpetual shortages and bottlenecks in production, the NKVD/MGB (or KGB) was not an agency that could any longer claim the privileges that it had enjoyed.
    That's why it is a bit difficult to imagine their successfully wanting a different detail in the mass production of uniforms and retaining it as their exclusive distinctive mark.
    Obviously the KGB later regained much of its status but that had to wait until the Hungary uprising and the subsequent arms race with the West.
    I know it is a matter of pure speculation but then Soviet production is NOT an exact science ... and I would know... as I maintain and drive a Soviet vehicle
    Sorry for having been unclear.
    Last edited by iannima; 07-30-2010 at 09:15 AM.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Beltring purchases

    Quote by iannima View Post
    Sorry I should have explained it better...
    Stalin died in March 1953, with the head of the NKVD/MGB Laurenty Beria briefly rising to power only to be put under arrest in June and eventually executed in December.
    The Fall of Beria marks the end of the unlimited power that the NKVD had held for so long. Indeed it was to be re-organised as a committee and not a ministry which mattered a lot in the Soviet Union.
    I appreciate that the style of the pockets of a uniform is a PHENOMENALLY trivial matter but my personal feeling is that in 1955 (when this uniform was produced), with the perpetual shortages and bottlenecks in production, the NKVD/MGB (or KGB) was not an agency that could any longer claim the privileges that it had enjoyed.
    That's why it is a bit difficult to imagine their successfully wanting a different detail in the mass production of uniforms and retaining it as their exclusive distinctive mark.
    Obviously the KGB later regained much of its status but that had to wait until the Hungary uprising and the subsequent arms race with the West.
    I know it is a matter of pure speculation but then Soviet production is NOT an exact science ... and I would know... as I maintain and drive a Soviet vehicle
    Sorry for having been unclear.
    I do not believe that the demise, natural or otherwise, of any noteworthy individual, nor production logistics of any facet, at any time, had influence on uniform/regalia regulations pertaining to the branches of the Red Army & Fleet, State Security, Narkomats & Ministries of the USSR .

    More-so, the postwar and "Cold War" period was indeed a very busy time for changes in such - and for all...

    Most importantly, as for the VCHK/GPU/OGPU/NKVD/NKGB/MVD etc & etc- from the beginning until well into the 1950s (and perhaps afterward), - they most certainly had discernible characteristics when it came to their uniform - from field wear to parade/dress wear - and none trivial at all...

    In any case, to elaborate on my initial reply, and to clarify my generalization about the gymnasterka in question: I believe that that the example shown here - with it's distinctive breast pocket, is the type that was intended for use by soldiers and sergeants of MVD/MGB by an order instituted in 1947 and abolished around 1955/56.


    The type intended for commanding structure of the same, with the external/pleated pocket characteristic, was made from wool.

    ================================================== ==============================

    In other words, and of course IMO: This is not a Red Army "tunic"....
    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

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