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10-25-2008 11:01 PM
# ADS
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Re: M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic
by
Dimas
Red politrucs- comissars stars are placed by me , but there was not traces of the cuff insignia, just my thoughts, no branch insignia and a not piped collar tabs- must be for comissars and politruks
Dim,
I have a few hypothesis, and they can all intertwine with one another :
1- Perhaps this was originally a pre-war NCO's tunic (no metallic-edged collar tabs and no edgings on the cuffs & collar). Are you certain that the remants of rank pips were SQUARE? Are the pre-war black buttons original to the tunic?
2- I believe that administrative/supply officer personnel did not ever use metallic-edgings, OR branch insignia on their RED edged collar tabs...
3- I also believe that TECHNICAL officer personnel of the different branches (except for MTC/Railway) did not use metallic-edged tabs either.
To add, I believe it was Order No. 253 of 1 August 1941 that cancelled the wearing of sleeve chevrons, metallic-edged collar tabs, and coloured-edgings on the cuffs & collar altogether.
4- Is it so that most, if not all Politruks officers? So, their tunics would have colour-edged cuffs & collars before this 1941 order. But -When were Politruk sleeve stars abolished? I can not find the order...
However, Politruk's, no matter inside what branch they served, did not use branch insignia on their tabs...
Of course now I am totally confused...
In any case, confusion aside, it is a sweet piece, and I am enjoying looking at it and trying to get it to "speak up" and tell us it's history... . However, I am beginning to lean towards the possibilities, IMO of course, that this was not originally a Politruk's tunic, but:
A- A pre-war/wartime (up to 1943) Artillery NCO's tunic that never had any artillery emblems on the tabs (perhaps due to availability issues early in the war?)
B- A post-Order 253 Artillery Technical officer's tunic that never had any artillery emblems on the tabs.
C- A post-Order 253 Administrative/Supply officer's tunic.
Then again, now that I re-read your post and have spent all this time and energy putting all my thoughts and their ramblings into text, I see that you did not ask for opinions, or did you?
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!
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Re: M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic
The buttons is original to the tunic. The square insignia for sure was there. Administration / medical service must have other color of the branch. Probably technical officer for artillery, but then why without the sleeve insignia, the quality is more to officers. The gimnasterka itself is pre-war and must have the sleeve insignia, 2 option - the traces from a sleewe insignia are lost, due of gimnasterka was used after the insignia was cut off.
Regards,
Dimas
my Skype: warrelics
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Re: M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic
It is very confusing Dim, I know...
Administration/Supply tabs for Army were always red edged without branch insignia.
Medical & Veterinary service for Army were red edged also, except they did use branch insignia - Gold for medical, silver for veterinary...
Sleeve chevrons for Technical officers of all branches, both types of Doctors (medical & veterinary), and administration/supply - were not used. In other words: It seems to me, if you were an officer in any branch that did not wear metallic-edged collar tabs on your "sleeve and collar coloured edgings" tunic(before 1 August 1941): you did not have chevrons on your sleeve...
As far as quality of a uniform's construction, I believe that NCOs were allowed to use wool tunics of the same quality as their commanders, if they could afford such a luxury in those difficult times...
This is, of course, is my opinion.
In any case, you have a great tunic and I would like to have such a comparable thing in my collection someday.
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!
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Re: M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic
by
Dimas
Hi Richie, the army supply used this kind of branch insignia
Yes Dim, I you are 100% correct. Seeing the image I checked my notes again and compared them to the "RED" book, in which I noticed a small footnote. I now understand that this emblem is indeed for supply and is used in all branches on their corresponding coloured tabs.
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!
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Re: M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!
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Re: M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic
by
Dimas
Take a look to the original pictures, here is some of the comissars without sleeve insignia
These could very well be - There was an order given sometime in 1941/42 requiring the removal of sleeve stars also... or was there? Perhaps I am thinking of something else?
Non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam!
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Re: M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic
Tankist is later MIA in 1942 year, I don't remember his name, but picture is 1939 year made, as I remember. But this one is for sure not technical officer
Regards,
Dimas
my Skype: warrelics
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Re: M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic
Two other guys is also pre war picture and comissars in winter uniform is on the Finnish front, one also has no stars on the sleeves
Regards,
Dimas
my Skype: warrelics
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