M 35 Politruk of artillery (political service) gimnasterka tunic

[Dimas]

Here is nice pre-war quality gimnasterka- very nice wool used mostly on the tunics like that and headgear.
The collartabs is original to the gimnasterka, but red "squares" are placed back by me to the places where they was attache ( some traces of insignia was there) red politrucs- comissars stars are placed by me , but there was not traces of the cuff insignia, just my thoughts, no branch insignia and a not piped collar tabs- must be for comissars and politruks

Enjoy this nice tunic

[RichieC]

Red politrucs- comissars stars are placed by me , but there was not traces of the cuff insignia, just my thoughts, no branch insignia and a not piped collar tabs- must be for comissars and politruks

Dim,

I have a few hypothesis, and they can all intertwine with one another :

1- Perhaps this was originally a pre-war NCO's tunic (no metallic-edged collar tabs and no edgings on the cuffs & collar). Are you certain that the remants of rank pips were SQUARE? Are the pre-war black buttons original to the tunic?

2- I believe that administrative/supply officer personnel did not ever use metallic-edgings, OR branch insignia on their RED edged collar tabs...

3- I also believe that TECHNICAL officer personnel of the different branches (except for MTC/Railway) did not use metallic-edged tabs either.

To add, I believe it was Order No. 253 of 1 August 1941 that cancelled the wearing of sleeve chevrons, metallic-edged collar tabs, and coloured-edgings on the cuffs & collar altogether.

4- Is it so that most, if not all Politruks officers? So, their tunics would have colour-edged cuffs & collars before this 1941 order. But -When were Politruk sleeve stars abolished? I can not find the order...

However, Politruk's, no matter inside what branch they served, did not use branch insignia on their tabs...

Of course now I am totally confused...

In any case, confusion aside, it is a sweet piece, and I am enjoying looking at it and trying to get it to "speak up" and tell us it's history... . However, I am beginning to lean towards the possibilities, IMO of course, that this was not originally a Politruk's tunic, but:

A- A pre-war/wartime (up to 1943) Artillery NCO's tunic that never had any artillery emblems on the tabs (perhaps due to availability issues early in the war?)

B- A post-Order 253 Artillery Technical officer's tunic that never had any artillery emblems on the tabs.

C- A post-Order 253 Administrative/Supply officer's tunic.


Then again, now that I re-read your post and have spent all this time and energy putting all my thoughts and their ramblings into text, I see that you did not ask for opinions, or did you?

[Dimas]

The buttons is original to the tunic. The square insignia for sure was there. Administration / medical service must have other color of the branch. Probably technical officer for artillery, but then why without the sleeve insignia, the quality is more to officers. The gimnasterka itself is pre-war and must have the sleeve insignia, 2 option - the traces from a sleewe insignia are lost, due of gimnasterka was used after the insignia was cut off.

[RichieC]

It is very confusing Dim, I know...

Administration/Supply tabs for Army were always red edged without branch insignia.

Medical & Veterinary service for Army were red edged also, except they did use branch insignia - Gold for medical, silver for veterinary...

Sleeve chevrons for Technical officers of all branches, both types of Doctors (medical & veterinary), and administration/supply - were not used. In other words: It seems to me, if you were an officer in any branch that did not wear metallic-edged collar tabs on your "sleeve and collar coloured edgings" tunic(before 1 August 1941): you did not have chevrons on your sleeve...

As far as quality of a uniform's construction, I believe that NCOs were allowed to use wool tunics of the same quality as their commanders, if they could afford such a luxury in those difficult times...

This is, of course, is my opinion.

In any case, you have a great tunic and I would like to have such a comparable thing in my collection someday.

[Dimas]

Hi Richie, the army supply used this kind of branch insignia

The technical ranks in the branch units must have the sleeve insignia in pre 1941 year
Take a look to the original pictures, here is some of the comissars without sleeve insignia

[RichieC]

Hi Richie, the army supply used this kind of branch insignia

Yes Dim, I you are 100% correct. Seeing the image I checked my notes again and compared them to the "RED" book, in which I noticed a small footnote. I now understand that this emblem is indeed for supply and is used in all branches on their corresponding coloured tabs.

[RichieC]

The technical ranks in the branch units must have the sleeve insignia in pre 1941 year.

The Hero of Soviet Union shown here is Tankist Technical officer - Pre-Order No. 253 of 1 August 1941 or he is a regular Tankist officer - Post Order No. 253, correct? He has no edged tabs or sleeve chevrons.

If he is a Politruk, then why would he have the Tankist emblem on his collar tabs? I recall that political personnel were not authorized to use branch emblems on their tabs...

[RichieC]

Take a look to the original pictures, here is some of the comissars without sleeve insignia

These could very well be - There was an order given sometime in 1941/42 requiring the removal of sleeve stars also... or was there? Perhaps I am thinking of something else?

[Dimas]

Tankist is later MIA in 1942 year, I don't remember his name, but picture is 1939 year made, as I remember. But this one is for sure not technical officer

[Dimas]

Two other guys is also pre war picture and comissars in winter uniform is on the Finnish front, one also has no stars on the sleeves