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Pogony M 43

Article about: Hi guy's , what do you think about this German made ?? Thanks in advance

  1. #21
    ASR
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    Honestly speaking,

    I don't see any special trait to label them as reparation, other than a certain prevalence of herringbone twill fabric at the passants straps... Inverting the point: If these are reparation, how are the real wartime soviet manufacture look like?

    Still, I would like if some expert on German militaria can find special traits in their construction.

    Also, why were they manufactured till the fifities? It is pretty simple to change the pattern to the 1946 regulations (for officers)... I can assume they honoured the existing POs with the old pattern or exhausted existing stocks of the pentagonal cardboard frames during 1946-1947, but how can we date some of these examples as fifties?

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  3. #22

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    Quote by ASR View Post
    I don't see any special trait to label them as reparation,
    Which ones are you referring to?
    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  4. #23

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    Quote by ASR View Post

    Also, why were they manufactured till the fifities? It is pretty simple to change the pattern to the 1946 regulations (for officers)... I can assume they honoured the existing POs with the old pattern or exhausted existing stocks of the pentagonal cardboard frames during 1946-1947, but how can we date some of these examples as fifties?
    Unfortunately, I do not have a definitive response to that at this time. So, for the time being, I assume it is simple conjecture on my part and the part of some of my colleagues. All of my material examples, documented research and exchanges are unavailable to me at present.

    I would hope that others reading this particular exchange that have participated in the discussion of this topic will chime in at some point. There is a quite knowledgeable chap named Alexander Sorokin who participates at forum: russiamilitaria.ru

    Most if not all of his input on shoulder-boards in general is quite enlightening.
    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  5. #24

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    Compiled by Alexander Sorokin and supplied courtesy of a dear Russian colleague of mine:
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    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  6. #25

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    Hello Richy,

    Thanks a lot for this very good document.
    Pogonies are so interesting but so complicated at the same time to collect

    This does help a lot

    Bruno

  7. #26
    ASR
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    Wonderful article indeed!

    But I still have some doubts... After I can make out with my rather average knowledge of russian language there is not much known of the actual workshops that made these items in East Germany, and no purchase orders or contracts have been found.

    Whilst there is more than a reasonable doubt that some pogni were made in Germany because of identified German materials (namely numbers 20-26, as the author states, even if Kriegsmarine cloth seems to be rather standard (I'll rather add number 27 which looks like herringbone twill material like the one used in summer-working german tunics) It still remains the question about why numbers 28 / 9 are of foreign manufacture... or numbers 13 / 17, for the case.

    I like the sergeants artillery example with the clear germanic name of manufacturer in the also germanic type of label: I think I can read <<Ludvig Richter Berlin>> in cyrillic caracters.

    And, please, do not take this as a critic on the -I insist- wonderful and serious investigation undertaken by the Russian author.

    Regards,

  8. #27

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    No worries Sir.

    We appreciate your participation on our forum and value all of your comments and opinions.

    Here are images of another maker-labeled specimen. Credit goes to colleague RSA from russiamilitaria.ru
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    .

    Fellow collectors are NOT adversaries to be bested...

    ☭ "Ричик, я не понимаю, почему, почему ты тратишь деньги на эти вещи!" ☭

  9. #28
    ASR
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    thank you.

    Yes, this is a very interesting specimen for comments:

    - Clearly a german-made example.
    - Seeems that this maker tended to use some plastic material for the backing (see the example in the article).
    - The Germans either learnt to produce the classic russian weave either imported it from Russian stocks (note also that it does not seem metallic, rather the earlier <<rayon>> type).
    -Note that they also lack the bt-5 tank or the crossed cannosns insignia.
    - I am not aquainted with transitional regulations, but, as I don't recall the technical service silver backing for artillery-ABTV being preserved in the 1955-1956 regulations, this item can be dated more precisely as the others: Do anybody know if this combination (red-silver) was retained in the 1946 revision? As far as I know, it became militsia after 1948.

  10. #29

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    Hello

    Very nice example Richy

    Here are one's similar to the N28 of the article.
    I got them with the button

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    All the best

    Bruno

  11. #30

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    All of this has been deeply interesting. However, I'd like to offer a return to the boards that Dom had originally posted that served as the genesis of this discussion. Regarding those boards in particular, I have one comment/question...

    The rather large, sharply die cut hole for the button shanks on these boards... Is that not a common trait of M43 style boards from Bulgaria?

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