Battledress Blouse Lieutenant G. A. J. Grieg, 70213 5th NZ Brigade, 2nd NZEF

**Loupie1961** · 03-09-2018, 12:27 PM

A not so recent purchase I am still researching on. It's a battledress blouse badged to a Lieutenant of the 5th New Zealand Brigade, 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force, or 2nd NZ Division. The BD blouse is named, to Lieutenant George Alexander John Greig, service number 70213. Some informations on Lieutenant Greig can be traced on the virtual cenotaph of the Auckland Museum, at this url: George Alexander John Greig - Online Cenotaph - Auckland War Memorial Museum , but no service records are displayed. Does anybody know how could such an item could be further researched on? Where to apply for Lieutenant Greig's service records, not being an heir? I guess his war service could have been quite eventful, judging form the wound strip on the sleeve of the blouse. Does anybody have any hints about the possible meaning of the serial MATS 41 104 ? Thank you in advance for your help, fellow collectors!

**Anderson** · 03-10-2018, 06:49 AM

It's a genuine wartime BD, but a few oddities. There shouldn't be brass "pips" on a battledress, only cloth ones. So were they added post war? The green 'MATS 41 104" rather looks like felt pen marker, which were invented post war. The writing "Lt GREIG" might be period written. As for researching Greig's war service I believe you can do it through the New Zealand Army Museum, they have a web site.
The seventh photo shows a "NEW ZEALAND" cloth shoulder flash but it's not seen in the other photos, is it not attached?

**reneblacky** · 03-10-2018, 07:17 AM

Great jacket, can't help on further research! all looks in order to me.
Quoting Anderson, felt pen markers where around during WW2! metal pips are normal.

**Anderson** · 03-10-2018, 11:02 AM

I'm going to have to disagree Rene. Cloth pips on battledress during WW2 for NZ forces were the norm. But in the 1950's and 60's, BD was still used and some units may have used the brass "service dress" pips (Armoured regiments?) Which raises a question, is this a post war service tunic, but made during the war years?
As for the minor marker pen point, I looked into this on an earlier inquiry, while some patents were made pre- WW2, permanent marker pens were not commerically available in the 1940's (especially in NZ). That didn't happen to the early 1960's and Japanese mass production. The probability is it was marked post WW2.

**Loupie1961** · 03-10-2018, 01:26 PM

Hello Anderson: I agree on the felt pen, of course it can not be period. The cloth shoulder flashes where in a breast pocket and found only after I had taken the first pics.
i did not know about metal pips not being in use by NZ officers during the war: they seem to have always been on the shoulder straps, though. Still I have got a NZ Signals Major's BD blouse (I will post it later on) and as a matter of fact insignia are embroidered on epaulettes slip ons.

**reneblacky** · 03-11-2018, 06:52 AM

by Anderson

I'm going to have to disagree Rene. Cloth pips on battledress during WW2 for NZ forces were the norm. But in the 1950's and 60's, BD was still used and some units may have used the brass "service dress" pips (Armoured regiments?) Which raises a question, is this a post war service tunic, but made during the war years?
As for the minor marker pen point, I looked into this on an earlier inquiry, while some patents were made pre- WW2, permanent marker pens were not commerically available in the 1940's (especially in NZ). That didn't happen to the early 1960's and Japanese mass production. The probability is it was marked post WW2.

I guess we'll have to mutually disagree on both, sorry

**Anderson** · 03-11-2018, 08:57 AM

I look forward to seeing the Signals major's BD. Below is photo relevant to the discussion. It show Lt.Col. Peta Awatere MC, CO of the 28th Maori Battalion being awarded the DSO from COC of 8th Army, Lt.General McCreery, at an Award Parade, March 1945 at San Severino, Italy.

Note the slip on cloth rank insignia that Colonel Awatere is wearing on his battledress (on parade too). Colonel Awatere was the father of Donna Awatere.

Battledress Blouse Lieutenant G. A. J. Grieg, 70213 5th NZ Brigade, 2nd NZEF

**Loupie1961** · 03-11-2018, 01:05 PM

I am afraid the theory of metal officer pips not being in use during the war is not confirmed: please find enclosed some pictures from New Zealand Army Distinguishing Patches 1911-1991 by Malcolm Thomas and Cliff Lord, showing not only artifacts, but uniform worn at the time.

**Anderson** · 03-11-2018, 01:33 PM

What's the date of the photo with the officer wearing the lemon squeezer? Is it actually a wartime photo and is it the 1940 pattern battledress that's being worn? Seems like the jacket extends below the belt. The 3rd photo of the Service Dress jacket, there is no argument, of course the brass pips were used with that.