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Canadian Battle Dress Blouse

Article about: Hi everyone, I ask your help for correctly identify this Battle Dress Blouse, mint condition, I found it in a vintage clothing store. I think it's a Canadian Pattern and seems good to me, bu

  1. #31
    RvL
    RvL is offline
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    My name is Rick, I live in a small town in the Netherlands. I collect canvas patches of all the regiment who went overseas. I do also collect everything of the Canadian first infantry division and the first armoured brigade.

  2. #32
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    I am going to try to post some photos of the falling down barn, the 48 foot trailers ( some full of uniforms and open to the elemnts ect that I dug through to find many great, but many destroyed items..if you think those "Pickers Shows" show hard digging to find the good stuff, they have nothing on me!

    Dean O
    Canada

  3. #33
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    I am going to try to post some photos of the falling down barn, the 48 foot trailers ( some full of uniforms and open to the elemnts ect that I dug through to find many great, but many destroyed items..if you think those "Pickers Shows" show hard digging to find the good stuff, they have nothing on me!

    Dean O
    Canada

  4. #34

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    Hello to all,
    I add another find from flea market, it is always a Canadian BD, it has been used and the inside markings are a bit faded, the photo is perhaps not very visible, but it says:
    S. & G. Clothing Co. Ltd
    MAR 1945


    there are Lieutenant ranks and should patch "Canada"; they are also visible traces of cotton thread on the right shoulder and the left pocket; I think there were respectively a unit patch and the decorations which were then removed, perhaps used in the post war on civilian clothes.
    It seems good to me, but I would like to know your opinion of experts; it is not a rarity but another piece of history that I would be happy to have saved.

    Greetings
    Roberto

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  5. #35
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    Quote by CampX View Post
    The 44 pattern BDs are refered too as Zombie suits, they have an open collar, not a closed collar as yours has.... it is called a Zombie BD as it was the type issued to Conscripts from Canada, however they were also issued as replacement BDs for earlier ones that needed replacement, as well as those that Vollinteered after this pattern came out...the 44 pattern caused a lot of problems for those that had the 44 pattern as a replacement as well as Vols, that joined in 44 and 45 ( due to age), they were not treated well by Canadian Soldiers wearing the earlier issue,, and were insaulted by being called Zombies, when many were not...it lead to small riots when Soldiers that had joined in 39 to 43 were reissued these...

    Funny everything has a story, and this is one of the lesser known stories.


    Great Find

    DEan O
    Canada
    HI All, I drifted over from the Bundeswehr part of the site. I used to collect battledress at one point and was floating around this part of the site and found this thread.

    Question: I've now found two references (on different forums) to 1944 Pattern Canadian army battledress. Having collected battledress, in general, for many decades, I've seen and understand the term 'zombie' but am baffled by references to a 1944 pattern blouse. Open to the idea of it but I've not seen an example posted.

    The examples I have have cover 1942, 1943, 1944, and 1945 dated with a couple of makers for each year. Other than the change from collar hooks to buttoned-tab, there is very little difference between them other than subtle color variations to the wool. All have drill lining in the collars and the front opening -- factory, non-modified collars.

    I am aware of the various modifications that were done to these to make them 'walking out' dress -- drill lining in collar removed or covered over with matching wool; fronts pressed open or tailored to make them open lapels, etc. Since officers were afforded the ability to wear collared shirt and tie under their blouses all along, modified collars to officer blouses are seen photographically on a somewhat regular basis although my personal opinion is that this wasn't a widespread/universal practice. Most photographs just show the blouse (with exposed drill lining) simply worn unbuttoned to show the shirt/tie. Actually modifying the collar area (faced lapels) seems far less frequent and more of a personal preference -- typically for more senior and/or staff officers.

    Dec 1944 dress changes allow ORs the opportunity to also wear collared shirt/tie with blouse worn open when off duty and, similar to officers, collar modifications start to be seen but, again similar to the officers, most seem to have simply worn the blouse with the top button open and no modifications.

    Here's a decent photo of an officer blouse with modified collar. You can see that a layer of matching fabric has been sewn over the existing drill lining -- i.e. this isn't a production variation, it's an owner modification.

    Two reference images -- officer and OR blouses with similar modified collars. Note the notched collars -- which clearly differentiate these as closed neck, wartime blouses vs the open-lapel, postwar pattern.
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  6. #36
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    I wasn't able to edit my previous post in time.

    CampX/Dean O: Are you able to post a photo of an example of the 1944 Pattern/Zombie blouse? Insofar as I've been able to tell, there were no substantial changes to the Canadian battledress until the late 1940s. The only way to tell a service member who served overseas from one who remained in Canada was via the "Canada" tabs on the upper arms.

    I think the controversy you referenced occurred when 'zombies' (draftees who refused to volunteer for overseas service) were allowed to wear shirt/tie with their battledress collars open while those who served overseas did not. Those in Canada wearing their shirt/tie combo were referred to as wearing their "Zombie ties" -- a derogatory term. By early 1945, all were required to wear the shirt/tie, and there was no longer a way to distinguish the Zombies from the volunteers other than the presence of Canada tabs on the sleeves of those who went overseas.

    Not ironclad but nobody else I know of who collects battledress has seen or heard of a production Canadian wartime woolen battledress blouse with an open collar design. There were definitely blouses modified by their owners but these would all fall into the category of personal modifications.

    Happy to debate the subject.
    Last edited by FtrPlt; 01-12-2017 at 06:14 PM.

  7. #37

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    The only significant wartime changes I have observed was the change from metal hook & eye closure to button and tab closure which I think took place in 44. Post war their are further changes.

    The zombie expression does not seem to have reached my part of the world.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  8. #38
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    "Zombies" was a derogatory term for members of the Canadian armed forces that refused to serve outside the borders of Canada. All serving overseas were volunteers.

    Not positive but I believe the change from hooks to tab occurred in 1942. And I agree, it's the only change I'm aware of until the postwar version was introduced in the late 1940s

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