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Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

Article about: Just bought this today online and these are the sellers pics. Advertised as named 8th Hussars MC winner tunic and underwear. From the pics, the vest is named to P Ormrod and was purchased/ma

  1. #1

    Default Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    Just bought this today online and these are the sellers pics. Advertised as named 8th Hussars MC winner tunic and underwear. From the pics, the vest is named to P Ormrod and was purchased/made in chester, the long johns are WWII Australian made, though I don't know if the KD tunic is named and so far I only have the sellers sales blurb saying they are all to the same man, P Ormrod. I did a search and found out the following, firstly from the Wikipedia entry for the 8th Hussars, which listed their battles and in particular, the Battle of the Imjin during the Korean war.

    By April 1951, patrols were probing north of the Imjin River seemingly uncontested until a massive enemy assault started the Battle of the Imjin River on 22 April 1951. During the lull it had been decided to rotate the 8th back to the United Kingdom,. A & B Squadrons along with RHQ had already reached Kure in Japan when the Chinese Spring Offensive had broken out and were immediately ordered back to Korea.[39] C Squadron, commanded initially by Captain Ormrod and then by Major Henry Huth (flown in from Japan) was left to defend the positions held by the Hussars alone.[40] The troops of tanks commanded by Capt Peter Ormrod,[41] Capt Murray, Lt Boyall and Lt Radford[42] engaged the attacking Chinese over several days to try to prevent the loss of the important high features defended by the Glosters, the Northumberland Fusiliers and the Royal Ulster Rifles. The 8th were forced to make several sorties into over-run positions to rescue infantrymen cut-off by the advancing Chinese infantry. The fighting was fierce:


    Crash Action by David Rowlands showing tanks of the 8th Hussars firing in support of the Ulster Rifles at Imjin
    Captain Ormrod's tanks had forced their way down the last lap of the valley through milling Chinamen. They could see what was estimated at 2,000 more, swarming down the western hillsides, from the heights where they had been held up all day. The Centurions came through, crushing enemy under their tracks. Sgt. Cadman found a Chinaman battering at his turret to get in, and directed the tank straight through the wall of a house, to brush him off, and then ran over an M.G. post beside the road. Cornet Venner, who had behaved with great gallantry at every stage of the day's fighting, lost his scout-car, but guided one Centurion out of trouble and escaped, wounded, himself. Captain Ormrod was wounded in the head by a grenade. Three platoons of Infantry suddenly appeared, in parade-ground order, out of the river bed and were blown to confusion with some of the last ammunition the tanks carried. Some tanks took to the paddy and were ploughing-in Communists, crouched under every bank. The firing was a continuous iron rain on the outside of the tanks, and only a small proportion of the Infantry on the top survived this death-ride. The tanks came out of the valley to see the Belgians leaving their ridge, that all day had guarded this southern opening.[42]
    Richard Napier, (a tank commander in the battle) in his book From Horses to Chieftains recalls:
    After about three hours of continuous firing, my machine gun barrels needed changing; my recoil system was so hot that it wouldn't run back and my loader/operator Ken Hall, had fainted with the continual hard work and fumes.[43]
    Napier relates how, unable to use his weapons he withdrew, allowing infantrymen to hitch a ride on his tank. The Chinese had infiltrated behind them and were swarming around them, shooting at the infantrymen on the tank. The crew resorted to lobbing grenades out of ther hatches at the mass of Chinese infantry.[44] On one occasion, the Centurion tanks of the 8th were swamped by Chinese soldiers who were attempting to prise open the hatches to throw grenades inside. The response of the Irish Hussars was to turn the turrets of their tanks towards each other, and "hose" the enemy off with their Besa machine guns. On their return to the British Lines these tanks were said to have "ran red with the blood of dead Chinese."[45] With the final withdrawal of C Squadron the battle was over, the last shots being fired by Major Huth. C Squadron them split into two components, one under Major Huth supporting the Northumberland Fusiliers with one troop detached to the Glosters, the other under Capt Strachan in support of the Royal Ulster Rifles. They held their positions for two days in anticipation of further Chinese attacks which did not come before withdrawing to Seoul.[42] Major Henry Huth received the DSO for his part in the Imjin battles and Captain Peter Ormrod won the Military Cross.[41]
    "It was at the Battle of the Imjin River in April 1951 that the Centurions of the 8th Hussars won lasting fame when their tanks covered the withdrawal of the 29th Brigade in heroic fashion in the face of the overwhelming Chinese Spring Offensive".[46]

    His obituary from the Telegraph also lists an outline of his service in WWII.

    12:01AM GMT 20 Nov 2007
    Colonel Peter Ormrod, who has died aged 85, won an MC in Korea at the Battle of the Imjin River.
    The 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars (8KRIH), equipped with Centurion tanks, were sent to Korea in 1950 to form part of 29th British Brigade.
    In April the following year, when the squadron leader was struggling to get back from leave, Ormrod commanded "C" Squadron for the first two days of the Battle of the Imjin River.
    At one stage in the battle the crews had to bring down fire on each other's tanks to prevent the Chinese fixing explosives to the hulls with the object of disabling the tank tracks. Then, on April 25, Ormrod led a half squadron of tanks down a valley teeming with enemy in order to protect the withdrawal of 1st Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers and 1st Battalion Royal Ulster Rifles.
    He got out of his tank several times in the midst of heavy fire in order to liaise with the infantry, and kept his Centurions in position long after he should have withdrawn.
    When he was wounded in the head by a mortar, he continued to direct operations until he was evacuated.
    The citation for his MC stated that his determination to get the infantry out at all costs was a major factor in the battle and saved a great many lives.
    Peter Charles Ormrod was born on August 31 1922 at Pen-y-lan, his family estate on the River Dee, north Wales, and was educated at Harrow. After leaving school he worked as a trainee civil engineer with Sir Alfred McAlpine before enlisting in the Scots Guards in 1942.
    He was commissioned and was in the advance party on D- Day when a shell landed on his tank as it was approaching the Normandy beaches and wounded him in the head. He was evacuated before getting ashore and on return to England went to hospital, where he lost his right eye. He did not return to the front line until the last stages of the war in Europe.
    Ormrod left the Scots Guards in 1948 and transferred to 8KRIH as adjutant. On his return from Korea he was posted to Mons officer cadet school, Aldershot, as an instructor. He retired from the Army in 1954 to run his estate in Wales. Although he had not recovered from his injuries, he took up point-to-pointing and steeplechasing and was Master of the Border Counties Otter Hounds.
    In 1960 he joined the Forestry Co-Operative, Flintshire Woodlands, of which he became managing director. Subsequently he became the forestry consultant to the Duchy of Lancaster's Needwood Estate and served as regional secretary of the Timber Growers' Organisation.
    Ormrod was Honorary Colonel of 3rd Territorial Battalion Royal Welch Fusiliers. He served for many years as a JP and was High Sheriff for Denbighshire and Deputy Lieutenant of Clwyd from 1970 to 1980.
    As chairman of the Dee Fisheries Association, he worked tirelessly to improve the salmon fishing and his holidays were spent sailing. He was a generous host and a devout churchman.
    Peter Ormrod died on September 2. He married, in 1952, Barbara FitzRoy, who survives him with their two daughters.

    Waiting for it to arrive and I have also asked the seller if there is any eivdence that they all belong to P Ormrod of Imjin river fame.
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    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    very nice

  3. #3

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    Quote by michael77 View Post
    very nice
    Thanks Michael
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    Arrived today, very speedy and no problems. Still waiting to hear from the seller of any evidence to link the 3 items together and also to link them to P Ormrod of Imjin River fame. He was from North Wales so the Chester label could be his, though an in hand inspection only shows what looks like, I. Ormrod, so maybe not his and maybe the whole link to him is bogus.

    It was a very cheap group to buy and not a loss if it's nothing to do with him, though it would have be good if it is his.

    Here is the tunic with my other KD tunics -and some others-, all recent acquisitions and all very cheap -though not the German ones-, though the cost of replacing the insignia is quite high, but cheap compared to German items. I fitted it with RAC slip-on Captains SB's and plain buttons, as the Hussars often used plain ones, though they also used named types. I'll wait to see what the news is from the seller before I try and find 8th Hussars buttons and shoulder titles.
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    Last edited by Jerry B; 01-25-2012 at 04:44 PM.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    Looking good Jerry. I have not forgot about the belt
    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    i like the fact he wearing 7 year old Victorian (Australian State)underwear ..

  7. #7

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    Quote by michael77 View Post
    i like the fact he wearing 7 year old Victorian (Australian State)underwear ..
    Still waiting for the seller to justify attributing this group to a WWII 8th Hussars MC winner, so it maybe the group is made up and has nothing to do with their claims. I. Ormrod was not the name of the the MC winner and I can't find him listed as an officer in the British army or any army. P Ormrod was with the Scots Guards in WWII and won his MC after the war, (all this is outlined above). The group was very cheap, and the tunic on it's own is worth at least what I paid for the group, it just hacks me off to make false claims in an advert. I would have bid on it just for the KD, the underwear was just with it, or so it now appears. If it's not as they claim, I'll probably sell the underwear and maybe rebadge the KD.

    I'll update this if any new info is forthcoming from the seller.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    An update on these, a reply from the seller;

    "Sorry, just our word.
    Brought from his daughter and associated items all bear the surname."

    Which is something, though probably not enough to be certain.

    The problem for me is that during his WWII service he was in the Scots Guards and I can only find evidence that he served in Northern Europe, so if he had a KD, which is doubtful, it would have been in the Scots Guards pattern.

    Secondly, when he was in the 8th Hussars, KD's of this type are on the way out and this example is very worn, so it does not quite seem likely it was his.

    Sadly then, there is still little evidence to support the sellers claims of the history of these items, unless this KD was from his time with the 8th after the war (1948) and prior to Korea, or his service with the SG included time in Africa or Italy and he did not have his KD manufactured in the SG pattern. Obviously, the SG served in Africa, with the 24th Guards infantry brigade -with the 6th Armoured div or the 6th SA armoured div- or 45 to 46 with BETFOR in Italy.

    I have asked if they can supply any pics of the other items said to have been purchased from his daughter -He had two- and I am waiting to see if any are forthcoming.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    Quote by michael77 View Post
    i like the fact he wearing 7 year old Victorian (Australian State)underwear ..
    The fact that he has Aussie undercrackers would suggest to me the set (if it is all one man's stuff) comes from the Burma campaign or somewhere like that. Australian issue items being used by British troops were not common in North Africa or Italy, but very common in areas where Australia would be the closest point of supply.

    I suppose Korea too, would come under that theory.

    Rob

  10. #10

    Default Re: Mc winner named uniform group inc KD tunic, vest & long johns

    Quote by Battery Command Post View Post
    The fact that he has Aussie undercrackers would suggest to me the set (if it is all one man's stuff) comes from the Burma campaign or somewhere like that. Australian issue items being used by British troops were not common in North Africa or Italy, but very common in areas where Australia would be the closest point of supply.

    I suppose Korea too, would come under that theory.

    Rob
    Hi Rob, I notice you edited your post and added Korea, as I had thought to ask that.

    This group is far from being certainly attributed to the man claimed by the seller, but maybe they will show some other evidence at some stage, though they might not bother, as they made very little money on this group and why would they put them selves out any more.

    Still a nice KD and other items for not a lot of money, so whatever the outcome I will be happy, but there is no denying that I would be happier if they had belonged to P. Ormrod, as the seller claimed.
    Regards,

    Jerry

    Whatever its just an opinion.

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