St. Clair M1 Set

**jumpingjank** · 01-14-2013, 12:07 AM

andy thats a really nice helmet you have there ! the blood thing is a bit strange but still cool !

**ruddersrangers44** · 01-14-2013, 05:33 PM

Well the shell as I already said is 1942 made McCord and the liner is nice as its the early HBT type with the turned in nape....so they are of very similar age IMO...unfortunately the seller has decided off there own back that everything is 100% everything so a nice tasty reserve has been smacked on it.currently at £125 with 36 hours left so maybe the gut feeling that something may not be quite right so may not even reach its reserve unless someone gets itchy fingers and jumps...cheers Jake.

**aj4010** · 01-14-2013, 06:05 PM

It looks like a nice clean honest set. The green buckle liner chinstrap alone is worth a lot of money these days. I think anybody would be pleased to own it.

Best Regards,

Andy

**ruddersrangers44** · 01-14-2013, 07:15 PM

For me personally that buckle would play on my conscience way too much.....I would be forever wondering when the chinstrap was added I.E from factory or field done.....also why do sellers leave the sweatband attached to the headband causing sufficient unnecessary damage when surely it could unclipped and reset on the HBT webbing do you lot agree with this notion?cheers Jake.

**plumbob** · 01-14-2013, 07:28 PM

The liner looks ok. As Andy says the chin straps can go for £60 plus alone, I don’t know how unusual this one is with green rivets and buckle yet it appears to have black clips.
Remember if the pot has been repainted and replacement straps added, they could have been period done.
Never noticed the sweat band position, it was maybe worn like that.
Over all it looks ok for £125
Best regards
Rod

**NickD** · 01-14-2013, 07:47 PM

by ruddersrangers44

For me personally that buckle would play on my conscience way too much.....I would be forever wondering when the chinstrap was added I.E from factory or field done.....also why do sellers leave the sweatband attached to the headband causing sufficient unnecessary damage when surely it could unclipped and reset on the HBT webbing do you lot agree with this notion?cheers Jake.

you should never remove the original sweatband as you could end up causing more damage to the webbing causing it to tear !

**ruddersrangers44** · 01-14-2013, 08:16 PM

Thanks Nick for your input....I find the term "original" some what of a talking piece in itself.so are we of the belief that a field re-paint and replacement chinstraps are still classed as an original and therefore has no bearing on the asking or selling price?I know many collectors prefer box standard straight out of a book type lids and will not entertain these lids because of the "when" issue was the re-paint and chinstraps actually done.....cheers Jake.

**NickD** · 01-14-2013, 09:03 PM

all helmets at some point had parts replace & repainted through out their time in use i see original as it was when it was last used in military service if its be messed with post war by another "collector" then its no longer original & therefor damages not only its history but its value but that's just mi opinion.

**plumbob** · 01-14-2013, 09:58 PM

Nick has just summed it up well..
That is always the big Question when was a repaint or an alteration done? can it ever be proven?
HoovieDude brought this up on another forum, check this link, note how some the helmets seem to be different shades of green. This may mean that some of what we class as repainted Korean war helmets may in fact be ww2.
US and Russian combat troops meeting at the Elbe river 1945 - YouTube
regards
Rod

**aj4010** · 01-15-2013, 01:03 AM

by plumbob

Nick has just summed it up well..
That is always the big Question when was a repaint or an alteration done? can it ever be proven?
HoovieDude brought this up on another forum, check this link, note how some the helmets seem to be different shades of green. This may mean that some of what we class as repainted Korean war helmets may in fact be ww2.
US and Russian combat troops meeting at the Elbe river 1945 - YouTube
regards
Rod

Thanks for that Rod, interesting indeed.
This is a very interesting subject as regards field replacements and overpaints.
Personally I have no qualms about adding a period green buckle liner chinstrap to any new helmet that I acquire for instance, and still call it original. These straps are (were) flimsy, and had to be "throw away" items in their day, and replaced many, many times during the lifetime of any one particular helmet that had reasonable use. They are not particularly valuable in themselves as a source of information about the history of a piece in the same way as a liner is, for instance, though swapping out a liner I would consider in a very different light.
As for overpaints, well I'm pretty much with what Nick has said on that one, if it was repainted or refurbed in it's military service I would consider the helmet to be original. The problem then of course comes with the description of the helmet, "Original WW2" for instance would be bending the truth for a piece made in 1942, and has made it all the way through to it's National Guard retirement in 1987, having had many overpaints and refurbs along the way.
The term "Original WW2" cannot, I think only mean an absolutely untouched, pristine with original one layer of factory paint and the issued liner chinstrap in as as it left the factory condition. I know these are out there though.
Anyway, enough of me, here's a helmet that I have that I consider "original", note the overpaint(s)