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Vietnam abn M1?

Article about: Good afternoon gents, As a longtime miltaria collector (about 45yrs!) of anything but helmets bar the odd "must have" here and there I am seriously in danger of contracting M1 dise

  1. #1

    Default Vietnam abn M1?

    Good afternoon gents,

    As a longtime miltaria collector (about 45yrs!) of anything but helmets bar the odd "must have" here and there I am seriously in danger of contracting M1 disease

    This one came my way the other day and I would welcome some opinion.

    It is a rear seam swivel bale with a sand finish and a heat number of M324A which I believe makes it squarely Vietnam period (?). The liner has the more pointed peak shape and has no front grommet and no chinstrap studs. It has the three ladder type buckles at side and rear (does anyone actually know what they are fore?) that are seen on the liners from the '70's but the suspension is attached in the earlier permanent rivet style of WWII / KW rather than the later detachable type. It has airborne 'A' straps and female chinstrap press studs but the 'A'straps are attached in the "rigger" fashion rather than under the main webbing ( is a rigger mod official policy, unit expediency or aftermarket nonsense?). The maker mark in the liner crown looks like 7+2. Anybody care to give me "chapter and verse" on this one?

    Regards

    MarkClick image for larger version. 

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    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  2. #2

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    Quote by Watchdog View Post
    The liner has the more pointed peak shape and has no front grommet and no chinstrap studs. It has the three ladder type buckles at side and rear (does anyone actually know what they are fore?) that are seen on the liners from the '70's but the suspension is attached in the earlier permanent rivet style of WWII / KW rather than the later detachable type. It has airborne 'A' straps and female chinstrap press studs but the 'A'straps are attached in the "rigger" fashion rather than under the main webbing ( is a rigger mod official policy, unit expediency or aftermarket nonsense?). The maker mark in the liner crown looks like 7+2. Anybody care to give me "chapter and verse" on this one?
    G'day Watchdog,

    Welcome to the forum.

    There are members with vastly more knowledge than myself, but i'll try and help.

    The shell looks good for that era. The liner certainly could be Nam era but it may also be post war. How is the fit when placed inside shell? Is there any mark/date on the inside webbing? The buckles that line the side and rear of your liner are for installing a nape strap. To my knowledge, the rivets are of the characteristic USA type that were very similar or even the same in most generations of M1 liners. The maker mark appears to to be the same as my example which is dated 1982 or 1983 on the webbing (hard to read). The para A straps are correct for this liner and would not be (in my opinion) repro or after market. If it is a last generation liner, it's in pretty bad shape for it's age.

    I'll be interested to see what others think.

    Kind regards,
    Chris
    Last edited by christek; 01-07-2014 at 07:57 AM.

  3. #3

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    Thanks Chris,

    The liner fits well inside the pot. There is some nomenclature type printing on the webbing of the suspension but it is not readable.
    My question about period is really down to the fact that it looks like the 70's type liner but the supension is attached permanently in the style of earlier WWII or KW types rather than by detachable clips as in the later types. Sort of half way between the two styles if you like.
    I too am keen to know what other more learned collectors think.
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  4. #4

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    Mark if your really addictive might I suggest you go to the sticky threads set out by Nick at the top of the threads,and check out all the books that are listed which would be of great service and use to you over a long term if your serious about collecting this most iconic steel pot......we are here to help everyone but you need to start the basic ground work first..............p.s sorry Mark if i sound a bit harsh.
    With Regards Jake.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote by ruddersrangers44 View Post
    ......we are here to help everyone but you need to start the basic ground work first..............p.s sorry Mark if i sound a bit harsh.
    Sent in open forum for the consumption of the membership.

    Well thank you very much for your considered reply which does sound a little harsh actually. Not to say a little high handed.

    I have been a collector of militaria for 40 + years and I am fully aware of the importance of researching for oneself the items in which one has an interest. That in fact is what I am attempting to do here. I have some knowledge of M1 helmets although clearly not as much as someone with your obvious (?) experience! In other areas of the hobby I think I have a fairly good level of knowledge though I would never consider my self expert no matter how long I might have studied.
    A maxim for the hobby to which I have long adhered is that "there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers" and I have to say that your reply came over as a shining example of the latter.

    I raised a question to which the answer might well be obvious to one as learned as yourself yet to me needed asking and one which I still believe valid. I was asking the opinion of fellow collectors and if called for, the provision of fact. I rather considered that this kind of discourse was one of the prime functions of a forum such as this?

    If this is the kind of co-operation I can expect from the membership here and I sincerely hope it is not, then clearly this forum is not for me. I would hope to receive the help to which you refer in the same measure that I am prepared to give to others in areas where my knowledge and experience may count.

    My question still stands in the event that other members are prepared to give a sensible and less condescending answer. If not then I think it a blessing that I did not yet expend any of my hard earned "hobby money" on a subscription without first testing the water. I am keen to be a productive member of the forum and believe I have plenty to offer but not at the expense of bearing such intolerance.

    I apologise if I have misinterpeted the tone of your reply but I somehow feel that unlikely. If I might quote advice given to me as a young Tom; "do not open fire unless you have a clear sight picture"!

    Regards and all fairly meant.

    Mark

    PS Whilst we are taking about helpfulness, I think the phrase "if your really addictive" should actually read; "if you're (ie you are rather than the possessive your) addicted (ie the adjective for someone having an addiction rather than for something causing an addiction)".
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  6. #6

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    Please donít be disheartened , I personally am looking forward to any contribution you may be able to give including myself in other areas of collecting. Nobody knows everything. Iíve been a plumber for 33 years and I still learn new things every week.
    So please stick with us it not all bad, I must admit i donít post all that much as there are far better writers on here who know way more than me.
    If i can give a answer I will, if I am not sure I keep quiet,

    Sorry I donít know much about post ww2 liners but I have found this one with a date on it the same as yours if it helps. Might be a totally useless link to you.
    Here is the link.
    US Army M 1 Paratrooper Helmet Liner Liner Only 1973 Viet Nam | eBay
    best regards
    Rod
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  7. #7

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    Quote by plumbob View Post
    Please donít be disheartened , I personally am looking forward to any contribution you may be able to give including myself in other areas of collecting. Nobody knows everything. Iíve been a plumber for 33 years and I still learn new things every week.
    So please stick with us it not all bad, I must admit i donít post all that much as there are far better writers on here who know way more than me.
    If i can give a answer I will, if I am not sure I keep quiet,

    Sorry I donít know much about post ww2 liners but I have found this one with a date on it the same as yours if it helps. Might be a totally useless link to you.
    Here is the link.
    US Army M 1 Paratrooper Helmet Liner Liner Only 1973 Viet Nam | eBay
    best regards
    Rod
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thank you very much Rod, you reply is indicative of exactly the kind of positive attitude to which I referred!

    That picture is most helpfull because it is of what appears to be an almost mint example which can in itself reveal a huge amount when compared to a worn and dirty example.

    I too have limited knowledge of post WWII items and the helmet I posted came my way during my search for a wartime one to fill out the "background" of my collection. As a result of my initial interest I find I have opened something of a "can of worms" and a new section of my collection is now yawning before me!

    Because my interest in militaria goes far beyond the specialised core of my collection this is not unusual and I often find myself researching items from the Napoleonic period right through to Afghanistan. A hobby without end indeed!

    I am not disheartened just a bit cross and I am not going anwhere just yet.

    Thanks again.

    Best wishes
    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

  8. #8

    Default

    I am glade Mark you are planning to stay around a bit longer.
    Well done to you for your interest in a wide time range of military conflicts, I try to stick to ww2 and some ww1, thatís enough for me to try and take in.
    If you find a ww2 M1 please show it if you are not sure before buying it mate. The amount of clones about are endless. You may have to buy it from America as untouched ones hardly ever come up in this country unless you shop around.
    I see that the three little clips on your helmet above hold the nape strap, which is a totally different design from the ww2 type liners. I donít know how to date a post war shell sorry. I always seem to giving you links but thatís better than just copying something and trying to look like a expert.
    Vietnam era M1 w/ Airborne liner - STEEL AND KEVLAR HELMETS - U.S. Militaria Forum
    best regards
    Rod

  9. #9

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    Quote by Watchdog View Post
    Thanks Chris,

    The liner fits well inside the pot. There is some nomenclature type printing on the webbing of the suspension but it is not readable.
    My question about period is really down to the fact that it looks like the 70's type liner but the supension is attached permanently in the style of earlier WWII or KW types rather than by detachable clips as in the later types. Sort of half way between the two styles if you like.
    I too am keen to know what other more learned collectors think.
    Ok well the liner probably dates from the late 1960's - 1982 - It does not have the features of a post 1982 liner. It may be very difficult to pinpoint exact date with illegible markings. It definitely needs a refurbishment. NOS parts for Nam era helmets are still plentiful and not too expensive! The liner is in good nick so that's what I would do

    Kind regards,
    Chris

    P.S Some of your answers are on this post. You may also notice a touch of irony Any details about this M1 liner

  10. #10

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    Many thanks Chris,

    A useful pointer to an informative thread and yes the irony is appreciated

    Regards

    Mark
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares more about than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature with no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

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