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Silver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELP

Article about: Hi Guys, I don't post here much as to be honest, I'm not much of an expert so I don't think I can help much. But, I do find all those that reply and this forum very helpful and valuable. it

  1. #1
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    Default Silver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELP

    Hi Guys,

    I don't post here much as to be honest, I'm not much of an expert so I don't think I can help much. But, I do find all those that reply and this forum very helpful and valuable. it is much appreciated.

    I've recently added a silver Verwundetenabzeichen to my collection but I have a few concerns. From my limited knowledge, and in comparison to my other badges, this one feels right, has crisp detail, the right hardware (pin and clasp). However, I doubt it's an actual condor legion badge as, to my knowledge, only one was ever awarded. What I think I have is an early WW2 silver badge, made from left over WW1 stocks/dies. But, I'm open to correction please.

    Also, if you look at the reverse of the Swastika, there is a small circular indentation. I've never seen that before. Could it be a solder mark from a screw back version as that's where the pin would be attached to the badge? But, why would a manufacturer take a screw off and put a pin mechanism on? Is it a case where an order from the army came in and they filled it with what they had available? Or, is mine a fake? Any information would help. Thanks in advance.

    Silver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELPSilver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELPSilver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELP

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  3. #2
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    Hello Breen,
    I've asked you the same question before: Why buy something first and THEN ask whether the item is any good? Personally I wouldn't touch this particular badges design with a 10 foot pole. Have a look at post # 4 in the following link. Doug hits the nail on the head as far as mentioning the different set-ups concerned.

    Verwundetenabzeichen 1939 in Gold (1.Form)

    Re: the different hardware Doug mentions, these badges will also be found with a small block hinge as well as the screwback fittings in the following GMIC link:

    Early (Condor Legion?) Silver Wound Badge - Germany: Third Reich: State, Civil, NSDAP Awards & Decorations - Gentleman's Military Interest Club

    Once again, not a type that I would have in my collection. Others might think differently. This type is mentioned on several different Forums. Have a good look and make up your own mind.

    Regards
    Brett
    "I wish life could be Swedish magazines" Iggy Pop, 1979

    "Stupidity has a certain charm. Ignorance does not" Frank Zappa

  4. #3
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    Hi Brett, many thanks for your reply. I'm learning as I go along, as we all do I suppose. I usually only purchase from reputable dealers, of which I have 3 or 4 and I rely on their knowledge, as well as my own basic research, to buy authentic items. I don't just buy blindly. I do what I can with the resources I have available (internet, forums, dealer friends). However, even that's fraught with danger as some dealers and forum members believe different things in terms of what's real/fake and what's just a maker's variation as so many exist. So, it's difficult for non-experts like me to purchase credible items. It's a mine field and disheartening. This item feels and looks good and has what I'd class as correct hardware. I would have thought that the swastika was just a bad strike during the reworking of an Imperial wound badge as all 1st pattern wound badges were. But again, not being an expert, I'm probably wrong and have to rely on the dealers and on forums like this to help make more-informed decisions and judgements.

  5. #4
    CBH
    CBH is offline
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    Here is my 36/39 pattern Silver Wound Badge, this pattern was instituted in May, 1939 for Wounded German Volunteers in the Spanish Civil War (36/39). Only a small number where awarded to actual Spanish Volunteers, 182 Black, and 1 Silver , no record of a Gold ever being issued. These early badges where later issued in early WWII with the last documented issue being in 1942.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Silver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELP   Silver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELP  

    Cheers Chris

  6. #5
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    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for your reply. I've now come across a gold version 1st pattern badge that is identical to the silver one I've already posted. I bought this from a respected dealer, but if one (silver) is fake then the gold must also be. This dealer, as you would expect seems convinced it's genuine. But, I have had another one of my dealers look at both of them and he wasn't convinced either were authentic. If the membership here think they aren't genuine, as from the comments I think that's the consensus, these images could be added to a database of fakes on this forum for others to use and to check their collections.

    Silver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELPSilver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELPSilver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELPSilver Condor Legion Verwundetenabzeichen HELP

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    Here's a couple of WAF threads about these badges. The first shows a gold badge with the block hinge setup.

    Spain gold Wound Badge opinions please - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    Type 1 Wound Badges - Opinions Please - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

    I should point out that "Afrikaheld" is mentioned as the seller in the second thread. To the uninitiated, this is arch faker Carsten Staegemeir.


    Regards
    Brett
    "I wish life could be Swedish magazines" Iggy Pop, 1979

    "Stupidity has a certain charm. Ignorance does not" Frank Zappa

  8. #7
    CBH
    CBH is offline
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    I'm not a fan of the residue in the reverse of the swastika on the silver one, the outer wreath isn't jagged like mine.
    The fact that a gold example looks exactly the same and is also mint makes me wonder also.
    Cheers Chris

  9. #8
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    Hi Guys,

    I agree about the smudging on the back of the swastika. I raised this issue as soon as I got it an was assured it was just a poor strike. If you look at both of these wound badges, the helmets are slightly off-centre too which is concerning. In relation to the wreath surrounding the badge, I thought that this was just a maker's variation as, to my limited knowledge, not all wreaths are jagged. Unfortunately I'm having trouble logging onto the WAF website, currently waiting for a password reset email. I think I'll just ask for my money back on the gold WB, if the dealer has any common sense, he'll oblige as I've only had it a couple of weeks. I'm surprised with this particular dealer, he's a well-known dealer that visits many fares and has an online presence. I've bought from him before without trouble. Obviously I won't name him here as I don't think he knowingly sold me a fake or maybe I'm just being naive. But I am also surprised he didn't recognise the flaws within this badge, not sure I'd buy from him again.

    Also, if the administrators/more experienced members here, feel that these images would serve a better purpose being posted elsewhere on the forum or could be added to a known fakes database/post, feel free to use them for that purpose, my little contribution to help others avoid these fakes.

  10. #9
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    Hello Breen
    This particular design of badge has been classed as problematical among Wound Badge collectors for some years and is well documented on the forums. The problem is convincing your dealer friends that the badges are decidedly iffy. Just because a dealer has an online presence does not automatically mean that whatever they sell is good and many a dud is sold either through ignorance or by design. Why on earth did you buy the gold badge when you were told that your silver of the same design had all the hallmarks of a known fake? The mind boggles! Anyway mate, good luck with your return.

    Regards
    Brett
    "I wish life could be Swedish magazines" Iggy Pop, 1979

    "Stupidity has a certain charm. Ignorance does not" Frank Zappa

  11. #10
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    Hi Brett,

    I bought both badges from different dealers around the same time. The silver one arrived much quicker than the gold. So, I was unaware at the time that they were both identical, similar yes from the pictures. But, until you have them both in your hands, it's difficult to make detailed comparisons. Had I have known they were identical I wouldn't have purchased the gold. You live and learn. Part of collecting is learning from mistakes and getting burned a bit.

    Just out of curiosity, how much would someone expect to pay for a silver and gold 1st pattern? Ultimately I'd like to replace the silver and gold badges to complete the set, as I already have a magnetic black 1st pattern which cost 100, but some prices seem excessive. I've seen magnetic silver 1st pattern badges for 250 with only a small portion of the silver coating remaining.

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