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Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944 in Schwarz

Article about: Hi Guys, this is something which is seldom seen. Few collectors have any real experience of these. So I would ask for informed comments only please. This badge came into work the other week.

  1. #11

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    Hi Guys, thanks for sticking your necks out a bit on this one.

    I strongly believe it to be bad.

    It was sold by a UK dealer with the story that it was Karl-Jesko Otto Robert von Puttkamer's badge. However, his real badge came up for sale just a few years ago now.
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  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    P
    Many
     

  3. #12

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    Hello Again,
    here are the results of my previous research following a little of the history that I have gleaned about these badges.
    These are my own thoughts so they may be flawed or slightly inaccurate.
    I have learned that there were around 23/24 of these badges awarded in various grades.
    Ancient experts have estimated that 100 were manufactured in one case for badges marked 2 800 and an unknown number of badges that were marked L/12 800.
    My own thoughts on this are why would Juncker make an unknown quantity of these for private sale when the number of recipients was so small...I don't think they did.
    There would be NO difference in the die that was used to make these awards in different grades. My belief is they would have all been struck from the same die and whatever grade added at a later stage.
    Therefore every badge apart from the hand finishing and the post stamping treatment would have the same die characteristics.

    Now to a comparison check. Due to the absolute rarity of these badge HD pictures are hard to come across.
    My picture that I used as a comparison came from Hermann Historica a number of years ago. This is a badge with provenance.

    I have marked with red arrows the fundamental differences that I see as a casual observer.

    We have the difference in the distance from the helmet rim to the wreath.
    There is a difference in the Adolf signature with the gap being wider on the reproduction.
    The swastika on the reproduction helmet is more rounded ie less crisp than it's genuine counterpart.
    The overall finish of the reproduction is weak.

    Final point on the comparison pictures is the big yellow arrow that points out the die flaw on the ribbon tie also visible in the fake I posted above.




    Click image for larger version. 

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    All the best
    Doug

  4. #13

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    Doug - Nicely done comparison. Is there a chance that you could post the reverse of these badges?
    I was under the same impression as Stewy about the catch. The genuine badge that I have as reference in my files shows a round wire type catch as opposed to the flat catch that was evident on Ade's posted badge.
    Regards
    Detlef

  5. #14

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    Hello Detlef.
    Below are 4 examples of the hook and hinge assemblies on perceived genuine badges.
    The two that are marked 800 2 I have absolutely no problem with.
    If you look closely at the hinge block you will see a similar amount of wear.
    Now look at the hinge blocks of the two 800 L/12 badges...In my opinion there is little wear and the block looks 'crisper'

    I have no confidence in the L12 badges but I cannot deny that they must have existed pre May 1945 (or perhaps very shortly after )
    (There are examples in the Soviet Army Museum that are all stamped L12)

    Anyway the hooks on both the 2 and L/12s are very similar both types use the thin round wire.

    Then look at the example Adrian posted. It is indeed a chunkier looking piece of metal...but look how the hinge is very similar to the 'original' L12 examples.

    All in all I just think Adrian's is a very nice high quality copy. More than likely still worth 100-200 as a filler.

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    All the best
    Doug
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #15

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    When you put them side by side like that, things start to really stand out don't they? Thanks for posting the images!
    "Only a real risk tests the reality of a belief." - C.S. Lewis

  7. #16

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    Very nice work. Thanks Doug!
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  8. #17

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    Quote by Adrian Stevenson View Post
    Very nice work. Thanks Doug!
    I couldn't agree more! Excellent points and illustrations have been raised by several members that are very well observed! There really isn't much I can add to what's been said, but I can assure you I spent a fair amount of time examining the available info as it's highly unlikely I'll ever get my hands on a genuine one. Suffice to say, there's a couple of flaws that are present on the original badges that the fakes don't seem to show (besides the sword pommel and ribbon bow) and they are on the laurel leaves at 9 o'clock on the badge. I've highlighted them on the two genuine badges (black and gold) below to show continuity.

    For me the immediate signs that scream out from the fake is, as already mentioned, the poor definition of the pebbling on the obverse and the lack of a round wire catch on the reverse. Both of these points don't require one to go hunting through books or on the net to tell you straight away what's fake and what's not.

    Just for interest, the Gold Wound Badge awarded posthumously to Generalleutnant Rudolf Schmundt was sold alongside the award document and his ribbon bar for 56,000 Euro's in 2013. Also Kontreadmiral Hans-Eric Voss was unique in being awarded all 3 (Black, Silver & Gold) of the 20 Juli 1944 wound badges having been wounded again before the wars end.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks from me to all for taking up the challenge and having a go, it's been an interesting thread!

    Regards, Ned
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  9. #18
    ?

    Default

    Very informative thread guys.

  10. #19

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    Thanks Doug. Very much appreciated.
    KR
    Detlef

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