Become our sponsor and display your banner here
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944 in Schwarz

Article about: Hi Guys, this is something which is seldom seen. Few collectors have any real experience of these. So I would ask for informed comments only please. This badge came into work the other week.

  1. #1

    Default Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944 in Schwarz

    Hi Guys, this is something which is seldom seen.

    Few collectors have any real experience of these. So I would ask for informed comments only please.

    This badge came into work the other week. It was purchased by the current owner around the year 2000 from a UK militaria dealer for a substantial sum. The buyer was told to whom it MAY have originally been owned. (Buy the item not the story applied here as ever). This badge requires very close inspection and we are talking, as usual, comparing die flaws to known originals to prove originality.

    I have my own thoughts about it, but in this case I would prefer to keep them private rather than colour anyone else's thoughts. If it is determined to be original, it will be up for auction.

    Cheers, Ade.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944 in Schwarz 2.jpg 
Views:	232 
Size:	182.2 KB 
ID:	839711   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944 in Schwarz.jpg 
Views:	106 
Size:	109.2 KB 
ID:	839710  

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944 in Schwarz back.jpg 
Views:	75 
Size:	72.9 KB 
ID:	839712   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944 in Schwarz markings.jpg 
Views:	110 
Size:	121.6 KB 
ID:	839713  

    Had good advice? Saved money? Why not become a Gold Club Member, just hit the green "Join WRF Club" tab at the top of the page and help support the forum!

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    P
    Many
     

  3. #2

    Default

    Ade:
    I don't know enough about these badges so I will give you an uneducated opinion.
    At first glance it's a beautiful looking badge. Nice detail. However the thing that I would question first is the Marker mark. I have not seen a "Junker" wound badge marked with "2".
    Sorry I could not be more help, but as you say you have your own thoughts. I'm interested to see if anyone is going to comment further.
    Regards
    Detlef

  4. #3

    Default

    One answer to a 5 day old thread that's been viewed over a 120 times? Come on fella's let's have some more input on this one! Any comments and points would surely be welcomed by our dear leader for one, and me for another.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  5. #4

    Default

    Okay,
    I am going to venture my opinion.
    If this is supposed to be an award piece that was presented by Hitler to the recipients it doesn't look like the one or two that I believe to be original.

    I've pictured a matching fake below


    All the best
    Doug

    Name:  FAKE.jpg
Views: 308
Size:  116.3 KB

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote by Saladin View Post
    Okay,
    I am going to venture my opinion.
    If this is supposed to be an award piece that was presented by Hitler to the recipients it doesn't look like the one or two that I believe to be original.

    All the best
    Doug
    Hi Doug,

    Would you care to extrapolate on your concerns regarding the badge? What are the precise points that really make you lairy of this piece?

    Afterall, anyone can say "It's bad" or "Fake!" or even just "" without giving a cogent opinion that enlightens others to why. Failure to do so just leaves everyone non the wiser and is frankly a waste of time.

    No offence meant, but a bit more would really help.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  7. #6

    Default

    Right here I go. I'm no expert on these rare awards. It doesn't appear to have the die flaws of known examples, pommel on the left hand dagger (as we look at it), Swaz seems to have less than straight arms. The depth of the '44 doesn't look enough & the catch appears to be a little too thick. Hopefully I'm way off, but I thought I'd join in. Stewy

  8. #7

    Default

    U
    Quote by big ned View Post
    Hi Doug,

    Would you care to extrapolate on your concerns regarding the badge? What are the precise points that really make you lairy of this piece?

    Afterall, anyone can say "It's bad" or "Fake!" or even just "" without giving a cogent opinion that enlightens others to why. Failure to do so just leaves everyone non the wiser and is frankly a waste of time.

    No offence meant, but a bit more would really help.

    Regards, Ned.
    Hello Ned......absolutely no offence taken and I appreciate your comments
    I don't have my research data available here so I will expand on my comments tomorrow
    You will note that the picture of the known fake (museum quality ) reproduction picture that I posted above is s perfect match to the one that Adrian posted

    Doug

  9. #8

    Default

    I am going to weigh in with a calculated comment hopefully based on sound observation ........ there you go, now I've done it now!!

    Firstly I would look at a nice frosted EK2 ( a Schinkel or W&L ) or a B.H. Mayer EK1 and compare the crispness of the frosting and the coining of the frame to the "roughness" of this specimen of such a prestigious award.

    Second would be - I thought ONLY Juncker made these and they were stamped L/12 .... whats with the '2'???

    Regards, Dan
    " When you're chewing on life's gristle, don't grumble, give a whistle "

  10. #9

    Default

    I donít care for it at all. The crispness of the wreath leaves is not there-these leaves have soft edges and muted veins. The pebbling around the Hitler signature looks flawed-especially so around the first half of the name. Casting flaw between the lower swastika arm and the right hand grip of the sword shows marked smoothness and lack of definition. Comparing it to a known example presented to General Hans Erich Voss, Vossís has itís reverse side stampings lower-towards the catch, rather than higher up as this one has. Vossís badge also carries a larger catch hook than this specimen has. The date on this one features a wide tail on the ď9Ē. As far as Iíve ever seen, only the Gold versions had these features and the Black had a straight tail on the ď9Ē. On the reverse side, looking at the maker mark, the ď2Ē looks to have a wide base whereas it should have a Flat straight base and no hook to the upper curl tip. Both the maker's mark and the silver content are not deeply or prominently stamped in either, as authenticated originals have.

    A Museum copy? A so-called Jeweler's wearing copy? Or an outright high-end fraudulent badge? Whatever it is, it's definitely nothing that I would consider investing 5 figures into.

    Dan-according to one source, "Up until 1943, Juncker used the Lieferungs number of the Ordens Gemeinschaeft which was L/12 and
    after that, the Presidial Chancellery number of Ď2í was used. Because these were hand cast and finished,
    either maker mark could be used and known
    originals have both."
    William

    "Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."

  11. #10
    MAP
    MAP is offline
    ?

    Default

    They were marked with either L/2 or just 2 according to Maerz/Hartmann. I really have nothing to add otherwise really.....But while nothing to do with anything as technical as die flaws and such, shouldn't the raised lettering be in black? Maybe it's just wear and tear. Also the base of the 9 looks a bit flared compared to examples I've seen in Maerz book. But again, it could just the paint that is distorting the 9 in his book.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Need Help! Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944

    In Verwundetenabzeichen forum
    10-18-2014, 06:23 PM
  2. Question Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944

    In Verwundetenabzeichen forum
    06-27-2014, 05:59 PM
  3. Verwundetenabzeichen 20 Juli 1944

    In Verwundetenabzeichen forum
    06-27-2014, 02:56 AM
  4. 20. Juli 1944 Verwundetenabzeichen in Silber.

    In Verwundetenabzeichen forum
    03-15-2013, 01:09 AM
  5. Another Juli 1944 Verwundetenabzeichen Fake.

    In Verwundetenabzeichen forum
    01-22-2013, 10:36 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •