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44 Springfield Garand

Article about: Pawn shop find (\\$800). All correct the best that I can tell except the Winchester trigger guard/stock.

  1. #11

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    Thank you Steve

    Something to look into, for sure. Garands are amazing looking.

    Mark

  2. #12
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    Mark,

    The chances of finding an "all-matching" Garand that isn't a put-together are extremely slim - and the price you'll pay will be steep. The reality is that the vast majority of military service rifles went through at least one re-build after WWII. Since they were designed to be able to work with parts from any manufacturer, the rifles were stripped, parts thrown in bins, re-furbed and then randomly reassembled. So, even if you find one that has matching parts, they are probably still not the "original" parts. Also, remember that rifles were field repaired by unit armorers and parts replaced - manufacturer and production codes didn't matter, function did.

    There are also people out there who will swap parts and then try to sell a Garand as original. The rule is to buy the rifle, not the story. Without paper documentation, it's virtually impossible to "prove" a rifle is all correct.

    Also, remember that Garands were manufactured into the mid 50s for the Korean Conflict.

    The CMP Garands range from early to late production and, by definition, most will have gone through at least one refurb process. It is possible to request a WWII produced rifle - that's what I did and sufficient amounts appear to be on hand so that I've never seen anyone not get one if they requested it. At $625 plus $25 shipping, you wont find a better deal in the US for a Service Grade Garand. Equivalent rifles at gun shows are going for upwards of $1000 around here - or more. Look at the link to my latest purchase, the 1944 Springfield Armory M1 Garand link that Steve posted and scroll down to the last picture after I spent just a few hours cleaning and oiling the stock. A steal for $650 and, even better, it shoots like a champ.
    MarkV
    COL, U.S. Army (Ret.)

  3. #13

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    Quote by MarkV View Post
    Mark,

    The chances of finding an "all-matching" Garand that isn't a put-together are extremely slim - and the price you'll pay will be steep. The reality is that the vast majority of military service rifles went through at least one re-build after WWII. Since they were designed to be able to work with parts from any manufacturer, the rifles were stripped, parts thrown in bins, re-furbed and then randomly reassembled. So, even if you find one that has matching parts, they are probably still not the "original" parts. Also, remember that rifles were field repaired by unit armorers and parts replaced - manufacturer and production codes didn't matter, function did.

    There are also people out there who will swap parts and then try to sell a Garand as original. The rule is to buy the rifle, not the story. Without paper documentation, it's virtually impossible to "prove" a rifle is all correct.

    Also, remember that Garands were manufactured into the mid 50s for the Korean Conflict.

    The CMP Garands range from early to late production and, by definition, most will have gone through at least one refurb process. It is possible to request a WWII produced rifle - that's what I did and sufficient amounts appear to be on hand so that I've never seen anyone not get one if they requested it. At $625 plus $25 shipping, you wont find a better deal in the US for a Service Grade Garand. Equivalent rifles at gun shows are going for upwards of $1000 around here - or more. Look at the link to my latest purchase, the 1944 Springfield Armory M1 Garand link that Steve posted and scroll down to the last picture after I spent just a few hours cleaning and oiling the stock. A steal for $650 and, even better, it shoots like a champ.
    Mark
    Thanks for the info. Amazing that we can get a German, Russian, or Japanese WW2 rifle but not American. I have heard this before but haven't looked into getting one before. $650 is a very fair price for a WW2 example that's mismatched, I just thought there may be some that have been unmolested. I have no issue with owning a mismatch if that's all there is out there. Thanks for bringing that to light.

  4. #14
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    Actually, you'll find the same thing with Russian rifles. The vast majority of "matching rifles" were re-matched during the refurb process. If you closely examine the fonts of the bolt, magazine floor plate and butt plate markings, they will be different than the original receiver fonts - because they were stamped (or re-stamped in the case of the bolts which had the original numbers polished out) during the refurb process.

    When you think about the German and Japanese rifles, there was no refurb process because the countries were disarmed after the war. So, it isn't surprising to find more that were never touched after the war.

    All M1 Garands and M1 Carbines that remained under US control went through a post WWII refurb and those used during Korea and later were again refurbed after the conflict. Again, it is possible to find bring-backs that have original parts but even some of those became mixmasters during the war as parts broke and were replaced at unit level.

    I also want to emphasize that the term "mixmaster" isn't derogatory...and $650 is a more than fair price for a rifle like this because you'll pay much more for that same rifle on the open market. The refurb process is part and parcel of the history of the weapons. They were designed to be able to have parts from any manufacturer swapped in and out and still function - especially with the M1 Carbines - so there was never any intent to have the rifles remain "pure." They were designed to remain functional.

    In my mind, we collectors place way too high a value on "correctness" than the average rifle is capable of. That's why you find unscrupulous people who make put-together "correct" rifles and then rip people off.

    If I were you, I'd look to a place like CMP to get a relatively inexpensive example of the war-time Garand. You can always chase parts if you want to bring it back into an "as-issued" condition. They carry the true history of a rifle that has seen multiple conflicts.
    MarkV
    COL, U.S. Army (Ret.)

  5. #15

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    If it makes any difference Mark (Green !) I think I paid $700
    for my CMP Garand about 20-25 years ago. I just had to
    have it as the condition was superb - even if refurbished
    with mixed parts - and any others I've seen up here
    that have come close are around $2000 now.

    How it got to Canada, I can only speculate.........
    Regards,


    Steve.

  6. #16

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    Mark

    I just didn't realize 6.2 million rifles were mismatched, lol. Being a bit of a smartypants It is, what it is, and if that's an acceptable grade for collectors, I'm in! I just don't usually like to settle for something if there's something better, I think we can all agree for the most part. I have several rifles that are in very good condition with all parts matching, or close, and wanted to kinda keep it that way. Mark, I have to agree with you regarding condition of weapons. For one, they're not wedding dresses and shouldn't be pure, they should reflect conflict and that makes it more desirable to me.

    Steve, yes you paid premium for the time (20yrs ago) but the rifle is excellent! Like you, I don't mind spending the money for something excellent, like weapons. Just wish there was a fatter wallet to draw from. It's really crazy that you paid 700 from CPM that long ago! These rifles have really kept their value and appreciated.

    Thank you both for your replies.

    Mark

  7. #17

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    Hi Mark. I got this rifle at a gun show here in Canada.
    ( I believe it was near Hamilton or Stoney Creek
    Ontario ). Somehow it made it's way up from
    the States.........!
    Regards,


    Steve.

  8. #18

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    Quote by Walkwolf View Post
    Hi Mark. I got this rifle at a gun show here in Canada.
    ( I believe it was near Hamilton or Stoney Creek
    Ontario ). Somehow it made it's way up from
    the States.........!
    Gotcha, I misread. I'm sure there are plenty of things crossing our mutual border You benefited on this one!

  9. #19
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    Even a blind squirrel can occasionally find an acorn. My brother in law just received his service grade M1 from CMP. It's an HRA and except for the op rod (SA) all parts are HRA marked. To say he was lucky is an understatement. The tag on it said 1 barrel 2 throat or visa versa. I don't remember which way it was marked. Except for a few dings on the hand guard it is in VG+ to excellent condition. All the wood matches and all proper cartouches are on the stock. It doesn't appear to be reworked in any way except for the SA op rod. Really nice Korean War period Garand. He made no special request when he ordered.

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