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9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

Article about: Hi, does someone have more information on this 9mm flare gun with "HUB schalldampfer 1944" stamped on the top of barrel, and what they were used for? I imagine the HUB is the 3 let

  1. #1

    Default 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Hi, does someone have more information on this 9mm flare gun with "HUB schalldampfer 1944" stamped on the top of barrel, and what they were used for?
    I imagine the HUB is the 3 letter maker code, 1944, the date and schalldampfer is a sound muffler/silencer.

    I would like to know more about it. If silenced, it looks like that part is missing, and would screw onto end.

    It says VGB 257 stamped on the holster strap along with orig. owners name. Was a panzer unit? What were these type of flare guns used for?

    I can find no information on it.

    Thanks, Regards, Steve
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  2. #2

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Ahh, I found this....257 V.G.D. - Kdr: Generalmajor Erich Seidel....

    Order of battle - Ardennes, Dec 1944 (Wacht am Rhein)

    Heeresgruppe B
    Kdr: Generalfeldmarschall Walter Model
    Chef: General der Infanterie Hans Krebs
    SS-Stubaf. Heinrich Springer aide-de-camp to GenFM Model
    Units:
    III.Flak Korps - Kdr. Generalleutnant Wolfgang Pickert (Aug.2, 1944-Mar.20, 1945
    813 Panzer Pionier Kompanie
    725 Eisenbahn (RR) Artillerie Abtielung
    674 E.Art.Bttr.
    688 E.Art.Bttr.
    749 E.Art.Bttr.
    OKW Reserve
    79 V.G.D. - Kdr: Generalmajor Alois Weber
    257 V.G.D. - Kdr: Generalmajor Erich Seidel
    11 Pz.Div. - Kdr: Generalleutnant Wend von Wietersheim
    3 Pz.Gre.Div. - Kdr: Generalleutnant Walter Denkert
    6.SS-Gebirgs-Division - Kdr: SS-Gruf.Karl-Heinrich Brenner
    10.SS-Panzer-Division - Kdr: SS-Brigf.Heinz Harmel

    5.Panzer-Armee
    Kdr: General der Panzertruppen Hasso-Eccard von Manteuffel (Sept.9, 1944-Mar.8, 1944)
    Chef: Generalmajor Wagner
    Units:
    9 Flak-Brigade - Kdr: Oberst Paul Schluchtmann - Ia:Hptm.Helmut Graf
    1 Flak-Sturm-Regiment
    182 Flak-Regiment
    Volks-Artillerie-Korps 410
    Fuhrer-Begleit-Brigade - Kdr: Oberst Bremer

  3. #3

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Hi Steve,

    The pistol is a German LP.42 Signal Pistol made by Hugo Schneider AG. Pressed metal frame stamped Wa and the serial number.
    The break open barrel is locked by a button on the left side. The brown plastic grips are held to the frame with two screw bolts and the butt has a 'D' lanyard ring.

    This type of pistol was often used by tank crews and Luftwaffe personnel. AS to the supressor, i have no idea.


    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  4. #4

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Just been thinking on this again Steve,

    The L42 flare pistol was a 27mm calibre signalling pistol with a capability of firing small grenades also.

    Looking at the photo's of yours, i would suggest it has at sometime been 'sleeved' to 9mm (probably post war) and a suppressor added. Whether this has been done to mislead or is a genuine article, i don't know, but it may be worth measuring the diameter of the bore in which the 9mm sleeve is fitted, and seeing if it does measure 27mm.

    Regards, Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  5. #5

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Quote by big ned View Post
    Hi Steve,

    The pistol is a German LP.42 Signal Pistol made by Hugo Schneider AG. Pressed metal frame stamped Wa and the serial number.
    The break open barrel is locked by a button on the left side. The brown plastic grips are held to the frame with two screw bolts and the butt has a 'D' lanyard ring.

    This type of pistol was often used by tank crews and Luftwaffe personnel. AS to the supressor, i have no idea.


    Regards, Ned.


    Hi Ned, thanks, but all this info you were kind enough to type out, I know already. A D-ring.....Ha! really now Ned, is that was that is? I was wondering about that little ring.

    What I was asking about "AS to the supressor, i have no idea" .....This is the information I am looking for.

    I also was wanting any info on 257 VGD. I think this is a rare pistol with grip and holster named to soldat.
    I can find no info about the "schalldampfer" for these LP-42 flare pistols.

    I really would like to know why and how these were supposed to be used in service.

    Regards, Steve

  6. #6

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Quote by big ned View Post
    Just been thinking on this again Steve,

    The L42 flare pistol was a 27mm calibre signalling pistol with a capability of firing small grenades also.

    Looking at the photo's of yours, i would suggest it has at sometime been 'sleeved' to 9mm (probably post war) and a suppressor added. Whether this has been done to mislead or is a genuine article, i don't know, but it may be worth measuring the diameter of the bore in which the 9mm sleeve is fitted, and seeing if it does measure 27mm.

    Regards, Ned.
    No Ned, I disagree. I think this is 100% original wartime pistol. I was also thinking maybe grenade launcher with a blank maybe, but why "schalldampfer" ....noise muffler??

    A silencer for taking out sentries maybe??? I think I read about this somewhere.

    Regards, Steve
    "Dr.Ruby"

  7. #7

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Steve, with the greatest of respect, this is not a pistol per se, it was designed and built as a flare pistol of 27mm diameter and, as such SMOOTH BORED. As you will know, this is not really worthwhile 'converting' to a specialist piece for knocking out sentries or any other covert purposes. Look at what you have, a cheaply made flare pistol that serves its purpose as it was designed to do.

    Have you bothered to measure the original bore size as i earlier suggested? I would guess not, as you would have mentioned it. Furthermore, the 'HUB Schalldampher 1944' stamping on the top of the barrell is very poorly executed, wouldn't you agree? Not what you would expect for such a rare and specialised weapon. That along with the 'provenance' of the owners name on the holster strap makes me think this has been probably made to decieve.

    BTW, is the 9mm barrell rifled or smooth bore? I look forward to your thoughts and will pick this up again, tomorrow (if that's o.k. with you!)

    Regards Ned.
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  8. #8

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Quote by big ned View Post
    Steve, with the greatest of respect, this is not a pistol per se, it was designed and built as a flare pistol of 27mm diameter and, as such SMOOTH BORED. As you will know, this is not really worthwhile 'converting' to a specialist piece for knocking out sentries or any other covert purposes. Look at what you have, a cheaply made flare pistol that serves its purpose as it was designed to do.

    Have you bothered to measure the original bore size as i earlier suggested? I would guess not, as you would have mentioned it. Furthermore, the 'HUB Schalldampher 1944' stamping on the top of the barrell is very poorly executed, wouldn't you agree? Not what you would expect for such a rare and specialised weapon. That along with the 'provenance' of the owners name on the holster strap makes me think this has been probably made to decieve.

    BTW, is the 9mm barrell rifled or smooth bore? I look forward to your thoughts and will pick this up again, tomorrow (if that's o.k. with you!)

    Regards Ned.
    Hi Ned, with greatest respect to you, I really do not what to say about your "vibes" this evening. It may be my American sense of humor....I was trying to make a joke at beginning of my reply to you about lanyard ring.

    There is no reason to be upset or pissed off, you can pick this back up at any time, no problem here.

    I just do not agree with anything you are saying about the originality of this "pistol", the markings and "especially the holster"

    This rig 100% wartime original, not fake in any way. This is my opinion after 40 years of WW2 gun collecting. Your opinion may differ. Lets see what others have to say. I may be wrong, but I do not think so.

    No, I have not measured the bore yet. I do not expect anything odd. When I have posession of it, I will fully get it it's specs.


    Regards, Steve

  9. #9
    ?

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    This remains me a little bit Welrod pistol, but I think there are some weak spots in this. If I interpret right from the picture, there is no ejector. No sight at all and it's single shot without magazine. If you are going to shoot a sentry or someone you have only one shot in reasonable time. You shoot the poor guy and shoot only his nose off and he screams like hell. I would think you should shoot him twise in a wery short time to ensure that he stays quiet. With this pistol I think it's not easy. You have to eject the empty cartridge with your fingers. I think it's not easy because the cartridge expands due the pressure. Then you have to reload again. If it's dark night and you are nervous you may drop the new cartridge or somethin like that. You have to change your position for loading too much, I think. I think this gun is wery quiet with right kind of ammo and I prosume it's rifled. Wery interestin piece.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 9mm LP42 Flare Gun & Schalldampfer What is This?

    Hi
    Found this information on internet, maby you guys can use it for somthing!!
    This is not my field, but it a very interesting thread


    The final and most common variant is the LP42. Made to save precious war materials and production effort, the LP42 is made out of stamped steel or zinc in the white. There were two manufacturers for this pistol. Schneide AG, Leipzig pistols are marked "wa" and the poorer quality C&W Meinel-Scholer of Sachsen are marked "eug." This was a simpler design that was not prone to breakage like the Heeres Model. This pistol too had brown to black bakalite grips and there will be waffenamts on the rear of the breach. There are both rifled and smooth bore barrels but it is not clear if the LP42 was also designated a "Z" pistol. As previous stated, these are more common and can be found for $100-$200. IMA has an assortment of flare gun accessories including the LP42 pistol for $170.

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