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Cut Down Lee Enfield

Article about: I am still 100% certain that this was a RE modified weapon. The fact that the picture is taken in the Hill 60 museum where mining was at its peak would back this up. Sappers cut them down be

  1. #101

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    Quote by Totenhead View Post
    I would have to disagree. I feel the shorter barrel would reduce recoil, pressure has less time to build up behind the round, hence reducing recoil. Thatís why artillery and tank barrels have muzzle breaks; this releases the pressure behind the round before it exits the barrel, reducing recoil. Itís simple ballistics. The longer the barrel, the higher the muzzle velocity, pressure behind the round has more time to build up, hence increasing recoil. Itís all to do with Newtonís Laws of Motion, " to every action, there is an equal and opposite reactionĒ
    The shorter barrel would only reduce the time over which the recoil force acts, the recoil force itself would be the same. Yes it is true that the mass of the projectile would have to include the mass of the propellant (which is the same as the mass of the propellant gas due to the principle of conservation of mass), but with the mass of the gun being reduced, the recoil acceleration would be increased.

    You are wrong about the muzzle brake. The point of a muzzle brake is to utilise the propellant gases and push them backwards after the projectile exits, hence counter-acting the recoil force. This would not apply to a sawn-off weapon, as the gas pressure would continue to exert force forward, causing the equal and opposite force backwards. Certain muzzle brakes (like the cutts compensator on the Thompson, actually push these gases up to counteract the weapons tendancy to rise.



    Rob

  2. #102

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    Rob,

    Canít comment on sawn off shotguns, never owned one! Ha-ha

    As far as I was aware, the muzzle brakes, i.e. on Artillery Pieces and Tanks barrels are essentially there to reduce recoils affects, and to improve accuracy

    Itís an interesting subject is it not!!

  3. #103

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    Quote by Totenhead View Post
    As far as I was aware, the muzzle brakes, i.e. on Artillery Pieces and Tanks barrels are essentially there to reduce recoils affects, and to improve accuracy
    Yes they are, but they don't do it in the way you described.

    Rob

  4. #104

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    Cool, i am no expert by far !! Explain it properly then !!!

  5. #105

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    So with all the questioning in regards to its possibility - my knowledge of ammunition is limited.

    My query is - how much does a 7.62mm rifle round from a Moisin Nagant differ from a .303 round from a Lee Enfield?

    My line of thought being that if a 7.62mm rifle can be fired sawn off with relative ease (as seen in PH3s's video earlier) then how much more difficult could a .303 rifle be ?

  6. #106

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    This may be a bit off topic but a friend of mine had an old US 30.06 that
    he cut down (barrel and stock). One night he tried to one hand it, John Wayne
    style and dislocated his shoulder.
    Last edited by Chopperman; 09-08-2016 at 02:23 AM.
    gregM
    Live to ride -- Ride to live

    I was addicted to the "Hokey-Pokey" but I've turned
    myself around.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    Quote by Guinness12 View Post
    So with all the questioning in regards to its possibility - my knowledge of ammunition is limited.

    My query is - how much does a 7.62mm rifle round from a Moisin Nagant differ from a .303 round from a Lee Enfield?

    My line of thought being that if a 7.62mm rifle can be fired sawn off with relative ease (as seen in PH3s's video earlier) then how much more difficult could a .303 rifle be ?
    There is no way on Earth that the guy in the video is firing a full charge round, as would be used in a 7.62mm or .303" military rifle. If you want proof of this:

    Quote by Chopperman View Post
    This may be a bit off topic but a friend of mine had an old US 30.06 that he cut down (barrel and stock). One night he tried to one hand it, John Wayne style and dislocated hi shoulder.
    Seeing as 7.62mm and .300-in are the same, the answer to the question is right there. All the decent references I have seen for the 'obrez' sawn-offs suggest they were used with reduced charge ammo. Taking rounds apart and removing charge might be OK for partisans and criminals, but it isn't for Great War British soldiers. As suggested by an earlier post, it could possibly have been used in this way by a partisan with watered down ammo, who knows? Damaging valuable ammunition like that would see you on a charge in 1914-18. I would bet money it's not a WW1 trench raiding weapon, and i say this as there is no evidence of them ever being used, and very good reason why they wouldn't be allowed. We know what trench raiding parties used, as raids were planned and documented.

    Yes it could be fired, but with with full charge ammo, you'd either be on your arse, break your arm or kill yourself.

    Rob

  8. #108

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    Up at Fultons in Bisley they've a SMLE thats been modified to fire shotgun cartridges. Perhaps the cut down Enfields have also been modified for shotgun?

  9. #109

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    The Indians did lots of .410 SMLE conversions. It's not hard to do.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Cut Down Lee Enfield

    So there's every chance it could have happened to the tunnellers SMLE's?
    Also I'd like to point out that, whilst yes defacing or modification of army equipment was a shooting offence, and Hollywood loves to portray this over the top officiousness, I've had relatives in the balloon corps and Ypres during the great war, and a relative who was in the RMC at Archangel during the Russian intervention. All who have kept diaries and photos. And at the end of the day, survival was key. If that meant modifying kit for survival so be it. Pompous officers who jeopardised survival with rules and regulations were oft swiftly despatched. Shooting idiot officers has always happened and I suspect probably still happens.
    Anyway... tl;dr. ... People do what needs to be done to survive. Officers often turn blind eyes to ensure their troops survival - as well as their own.

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