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Danish Bergman Bayard

Article about: James B. Stewart wrote an excellent article in Gun Digest 1973, entitled "Bergmann System Military Pistols". He notes, "Sometime during 1912 or 1913 a very small quantity of t

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Danish Bergman Bayard

    James B. Stewart wrote an excellent article in Gun Digest 1973, entitled "Bergmann System Military Pistols". He notes,

    "Sometime during 1912 or 1913 a very small quantity of the M1910 type were delivered to Greece for testing. The Greeks did not adopt this arm and the fate of the test pieces is unknown. Several examples in the proper serial number range have been found wit the inscription "L.Sk. 16." followed by another two-digit number stamped on the front grip strap. These may have been Greek test pieces or the marking may indicate some police usage. Several countries bought small quantities of the Bergmann-Bayard for issue to their police forces...".

    The other Bergmann-Bayards with this marking that I have seen did indeed have "L.S.K.16." followed by another number (as does yours) on the front grip strap. The only difference from Stewart's description is that his text reads "L.Sk.16.", rather than "L.S.K.16.", but I believe this is likely merely a typo. His speculation that these guns are from the Greek trials is based on the serial number range of specimens examined with the "L.S.K." marking, rather than any suggestion as to what "L.S.K." actually stands for.

    I find Still's explanation for these markings a bit weak. Yes, if the "L.S.K." marking were on an arm issued by the Imperial German Army, then the expert on Imperial German markings would be the best interpreter of those markings. But just because an abbreviated marking could make sense in German doesn't mean that it is indeed German. Many other countries and organizations used a similar format in marking weapons.



    Isn't it highly unlikely that a batch of foreign pistols, whether captured or purchased, would have gone through the armorer to be unit stamped, and then issued to a unit of troops, without ever being stamped with a single Imperial German Army acceptance marking? I think it makes more sense to infer that these guns, and the "L.S.K.16." marking are not German at all.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Danish Bergman Bayard

    Of course, Stewart's explanation is also rather weak. Regarding Greek usage, the letters "L.S.K." do not appear in the Greek alphabet. As to these pistols being "... in the proper serial number range...", he does not mention what that range supposedly is. The M1910 Bergmann-Bayard with "L.S.K." markings pictured in Still's book (and here) is in the 11,000 serial number block, yet my example is in the 1,000 serial number block. If these guns were all from one contract, it would seem to be far more than just "test pieces".
    Furthermore, mine is marked "L.S.K.16.17.", so the last two digits, if they are indeed a waffe number, clearly do not follow the serialization. Hopefully more examples with this marking will come to light so that more information can be garnered from them.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Danish Bergman Bayard

    Bill,The two dotted circles on the grips. Were they actually for gripping? They don't look too 'gripy'. Different looking to me. Ron

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Danish Bergman Bayard

    Hi...
    Wouldn´t happen to need original danish holster, lanyard cord, sparemagazine or ammunition coumb for your Bergmann - happen to have some lying in the corners. Btw. the ammunition coumbs are really hard ti find even in Danmark - found one in 1997

  5. #15

    Default Re: Danish Bergman Bayard

    The Bergman Bayard is one of the most beautiful pistol designs, IMO !
    You can see '96 Mauser similarities, but these are more refined,
    and rather elegant.

    The grips with the 'circles' must be replacements or are they typical
    of this particular model ? (Second photo shown has the type
    of grips I am familiar with - sort of 'Demi' or 3/4 grips)


    I imagine these are quite rare ?



    Thanks for showing it ...........!
    Regards,


    Steve.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Danish Bergman Bayard

    Yes, I am interested in accessories and parts for the Danish Bergmann -Bayard. Can you e-mail me directly, and tell me what you have?

  7. #17

    Default Re: Danish Bergman Bayard

    As i have wrote in my previous reply to the Thread concerning the "would-be Greek Bergman-Bayard", the weapons never ever reached the greek Armouries because of the invasion of Germany to Belgium in the outbreak of WWI. Yes the Greeks tested the gun in the summer of 1914, for Army issue only (due to the powerful 9x23mm cartridge), not for police use anyway. All the previous information is contained in the excellent essay by Christos Sazanides "Weapons of the Greeks - 1995 Thessaloniki", refering also to John Walther's mentions relative to the facts.
    I hope that these are a bit help,
    Regars, Thanos.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Danish Bergman Bayard

    That is the finest BB I have ever seen. Thanks for sharing.

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