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European Weapons Directive

Article about: This might be a bit of a touchy subject as things to do with UK firearms laws/deactivation standards usually are because they are downright complicated and never give you a straight answer,

  1. #1

    Default European Weapons Directive (regarding deactivated weapons)

    This might be a bit of a touchy subject as things to do with UK firearms laws/deactivation standards usually are because they are downright complicated and never give you a straight answer, but I thought this was worth bringing up again.

    I was on rusmilitary today and just doing some reading about the deactivation of the weapons they have available and I've found a few little interesting bits of information that leads me to believe that its possible to get deactivated weapons from websites such as and not be breaking the law in the process...

    Heres the interesting bit:

    "European Weapons Directive 91/477 EEC Annex III (a): For the purposes of this Annex objects which corresponds to the definition of a 'firearm' shall not be included in that definition if they: (a) have been rendered permanently unfit for use by the application of technical procedures which are guaranteed by an official body or recognised by such a body."

    So this more or less says that if a weapon has been deactivated to specifications that are approved by an official body it will not be considered a firearm. So deactivated weapons that have approval from such bodies as the Russian Proof Authority and whoever set the German deactivation standards etc appear to be legal across the whole of Europe.

    The UK is part of Europe, so this should apply to us too. Rusmilitary have been able to get deact's from abroad to re-sell in the UK without having to go near the Birmingham and London proof houses, and I can't see a dealer breaking the law. On their website it even states that the MOD bought some of their deacts in bulk! So whats to stop private collectors doing the same and getting pieces for their collection from abroad?

    I've also found out that its perfectly fine for members of the EU to buy deactivated weapons that have been deactivated in the UK to our specifications, I've heard that several dealers such as Ryton Arms have sold weapons to customers in Europe without any problems at all, so why wouldn't it work the other way round? Zib-militaria claim to have had customers in the UK for their deactivated weapons and didn't have any issues sending them over here.

    I'm bringing this up simply because the prices for deactivated weapons in the UK are absolutely insane compared to that of Germany etc. For example a deactivated PM63 sub machine gun costs 169 Euro's from zib-militaria in Germany, but the exact same gun costs 650 from D&B Militaria here in the UK. I don't know about any of you guys, but if I can get something for less than half the price from abroad and it was legal to do so I'd go for it.

    I know its a bit of a minefield when it comes to this subject area and its often backed away from when its brought up, but if theres cheaper alternatives for us why not look further into it? I would ask the police firerarms officers here in Dundee, however they arent too clear of the law themselves as I have found out after having some deacts I bought seized before they even got to me. So if anyone has any input, this is the place to post it....



    Last edited by GasMasksUK; 12-31-2011 at 03:08 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    im with you there danny the prices here are just plain "silly" i wouldn't mind knowing if i can get a gun from zib much cheaper

  3. #3

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    I got this reply on another forum that I posted the same thing on, what this guy said is rather interesting:

    This one is easier to understand than you may think, it is EU law that all EU members will recognise the standards of all EU proofhouses.

    However, the UK government feal that the foreign standards arn't as tight as ours and therefor don't recognise them within the UK. This dosn't make it illegal, it just means that the crown would have to take any case take to court, and at the moment I think they know they will lose by the defence representitives simply refering to the EU standards, if they won, they would be breeching EU law. Thats why they will not take it to court as that would give a difnitive answer and the Crown would prefer it to be a grey area. Companies like Rusmilitary are just pushing the Crown and at the moment they turn a blind eye.

    I have a Belgian deac STEN Mk3, its the same spec as pre 95 but I've no idea when it was done. I looked at buying a Browning 1917A1 from France, the proofhouse there (French government owned) told me in responce to my question 'Can I Import this to the UK' that I would need to ask one of the UK proofhouses, the Birmingham house stated it was not legal, but again, they are happy to say such things as they are protecting their business. Both UK houses are commercial companies and would not like to see us buy from their competitors abroad, that really would be the end for one of them. When you think of it as each proof costing 60, and 1000 guns are proofed as deactivated every month, that 60,000 a month they stand to lose if we buy abroad.

    What we need is someone with money, influence and big cahoonas to challenge the Crown/Government and get a diffinitive decision.
    So, does anyone here have money, ifluence and big cahoonas?



  4. #4

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    Quote by GasMasksUK View Post
    So, does anyone here have money, ifluence and big cahoonas?
    i wish
    i think really until someone tries it and gets spotted the goverment might do something but even then they doen't even know what there laws actually mean (like usual)

  5. #5

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    So, does anyone here have money, ifluence and big cahoonas?



    This guy's got all three.... And I think the 45 might also be a deact!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    'I do not think we can hope for any better thing now.
    We shall stick it out to the end, but we are getting weaker of course, and the end cannot be far.
    It seems a pity, but I do not think I can write more. R. SCOTT.
    Last Entry - For God's sake look after our people.'

    In memory of Capt. Robert Falcon Scott, Edward Wilson, Henry Bowers, Lawrence Oates and Edgar Evans. South Pole Expedition, 30th March 1912.

  6. #6

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    This will be intresting to see what others think but tho they turn a blind eye too it now what if a year sown the line they make some ban or new law ? Would you lose your imported guns ?

    Kind regards

  7. #7

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    Fantastic Ned just need to get that guy to knock on David Camerons door

    Alex, I can't see them banning them as the UK is currently part of the EU, however if they were to make them illegal they would have to offer the owners compensation similar to when semi-autos and pistols were banned. I can't see that happen though, especially when the MOD are buying from Rusmilitary



  8. #8

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    Well, after several hours it will be almost impossible to buy any deactivated firearms from other EU countries at all in Estonia. Our politicians have even prohibited to order for example a trigger, magazine or any other gun part from other EU member state without special premission. I think it is insane and if we want to still collect such items we have to change that stupid law. If anybody has any information about similar activities in other EU countries we should start a new topic or just let me know via personal message.
    Last edited by Frundsberg; 12-31-2011 at 06:39 PM. Reason: mistakes

  9. #9

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    i think this is a good one to watch, i wonder if the government would stop the deacs from getting brought in.
    Thanks for bringing this up Danny.

  10. #10

    Default Re: European Weapons Directive

    just thought i would add a little to the conversation,taken from the birmingham proof house website

    prior to June 1980, there was reciprocal agreement for recognition of certain foreign proof marks, by international accord. At that time the United Kingdom became a signatory member of the International Proof Commission (C.I.P.), Secretariat, at the Belgian Proof House, Liege. Since then the United Kingdom has recognised all the proof marks of the other member nations and, reciprocally, they all recognise UK marks. The C.I.P. has been working since 1914 for the standardisation of proof, which also involves standardisation of pressure measurements, of chamber and bore sizes and cartridge dimensions.

    Currently its members are:

    United Kingdom

    so in theory any weapon deactivated in these countries. with that countries proof marks for deact is legal in this country

    what do you think

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