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G43 Sniper ID??

Article about: by samnev Michael, No one one knows for sure how the matched mounts were separated from the G/K43's it could have happened a number of ways to numerous to speculate here. But they were origi

  1. #1
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Default G43 Sniper ID??

    Here is my WWII Gewehr 43 (G43) Sniper rifle.

    - DUV 44 "block".
    - Serial number G43 3369h .
    - Maker DUV (Berlin Luebecker with correct WaA214 inspection proofs).
    - All matching including stock BLM /Berlin Luebecker rifles.) Red laminate stock.
    - Single guide rib type.
    - Gw Zf4 Scope Serial # 41489 ddx (Walther) with blue triangle (for cold climate).
    - Scope mount #1889 (Been told they are usually not matched to gun unless sent back to arsenal). with Wa359 waffenamp. -
    - Late type sling?
    - Stock marked with "R" (purported to be Free French capture).

    The stock has two very interesting marks. The first is an "R" just below the comb. The second is two symbols on the handguard. It could be a "1" and "t" or a "t" and a "V". Not sure. I've read that stocks marked with the "R" could be Free French capture but I am not sure.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Overall rifle is in excellent shape.

    Enjoy

    Michael

    1) Rifle

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    2) Markings

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    3) Scope

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    Last edited by MAP; 04-18-2014 at 03:01 AM. Reason: left out part of title
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  2. #2
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    Default

    very nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Collect ROA, Cossack, Schuma and other WW2 Volunteer militaria.

    "Be Humble and kind, for you may find that it was Odin you entertained"

  3. #3
    mpw
    mpw is offline
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    Default

    Yes, very nice indeed. I understand there were at least 53,435 sniper rifles produced fitted with the Zielfernrohr 43 (ZF 4) telescopic sight with 4x magnification. I wonder how many survive in such good condition as yours.

    Mark.

  4. #4

    Default

    Yes R is for French Capture - the resistance I believe! very nice G43

  5. #5
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Default

    Quote by mpw View Post
    Yes, very nice indeed. I understand there were at least 53,435 sniper rifles produced fitted with the Zielfernrohr 43 (ZF 4) telescopic sight with 4x magnification. I wonder how many survive in such good condition as yours.

    Mark.
    Thanks! I have read that many of G43/K43's with scopes that we see out there are fakes. Not in the literal sense as the scopes were very rarely numbered to a gun (only when they went back for field service did the armorer mark back to the gun serial number). As such it is easy to slap a rig on it. It's near impossible to determine if the scope and mount (even if original) originally came with that particular gun. I has seen many poor fakes. This one came from a vet so I am pretty certain it left Europe in this configuration. No whether the French resistance added the scope who knows. If so, to me that only enhances the story.

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  6. #6
    MAP
    MAP is offline
    ?

    Default

    Quote by MG42 cra View Post
    Yes R is for French Capture - the resistance I believe! very nice G43
    Thanks MG,

    Any idea what the other two symbols are? Obviously hand carved into the stock.
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote by MAP View Post
    Thanks MG,

    Any idea what the other two symbols are? Obviously hand carved into the stock.
    No problems, as for the other markings though... I don't have a clue? Sorry

  8. #8
    ?

    Default

    Quote by MAP View Post
    Here is my WWII Gewehr 43 (G43) Sniper rifle.

    - DUV 44 "block".
    - Serial number G43 3369h .
    - Maker DUV (Berlin Luebecker with correct WaA214 inspection proofs).
    - All matching including stock BLM /Berlin Luebecker rifles.) Red laminate stock.
    - Single guide rib type.
    - Gw Zf4 Scope Serial # 41489 ddx (Walther) with blue triangle (for cold climate).
    - Scope mount #1889 (Been told they are usually not matched to gun unless sent back to arsenal). with Wa359 waffenamp. -
    - Late type sling?
    - Stock marked with "R" (purported to be Free French capture).

    The stock has two very interesting marks. The first is an "R" just below the comb. The second is two symbols on the handguard. It could be a "1" and "t" or a "t" and a "V". Not sure. I've read that stocks marked with the "R" could be Free French capture but I am not sure.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Overall rifle is in excellent shape.

    Enjoy

    Michael

    1) Rifle

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	677674Click image for larger version. 

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    2) Markings

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    3) Scope

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    G/K43 snipers if they are 100% correct would have the scope mount maker waffen amt the same as the rifle makers and rifle serial number on the scope would be the same as the rifles and were issued that way when accepted into service. However G/K43's in that condition are VERY RARE. Most have mismatched scope mounts. Some mounts were never issued and had no serial numbers. Forgers have electro penciled the serial number on the mounts to sell them as 100% matching. The correct German serial numbers stampings look like they are electro penciled but are not careful examination next to a correctly serialized mount ail expose the forgery.
    If that is not bad enough there are some very good repro mounts that can fool a person who is not intimately familiar with the G/K43. By the way I haven't seen that type of sight cover i'll have to look at my reference books. Not saying it's incorrect I just don't remember seeing that type.
    I refer you to the Collector Grade publication "Hitler's Garand" to verify what I have posted. It's a must have publication for any owner or person wanting a G/K43. I hope this helps.
    German weapons of any kind are being regularly forged so one must be especially careful when purchasing one whether it be a 98K, Sniper of any kind, Luger, G41/43 or any other Nazi marked weapon. There are many forgeries out their. it has gotten to the point here in the US that most of the Nazi weapons I see for sale are humped in one way or another. Remember buy the gun not the story.

  9. #9
    MAP
    MAP is offline
    ?

    Default

    Thanks Samnev,

    I've read that they were not marked coming from the factory but only when it went back for repairs. But that is just what I've read and I am not taking it for gospel. Would love to hear more from your research.

    Would like to pick your knowledge a bit more. When you say that most mounts were not matched are you saying that they are still authentic (obviously excluding the fakes)....Or to put a better way, were non-matching versions used in combat? Or did you mean that someone put two sets of original componants together post war?

    Didn't "buy" the story, just the gun but at a nice fair price. But thanks for the reminder

    btw...I have another K43 that is not all matching but this WAS a vet bringback (even found a picture of him from WWII rolled up in the buttstock cleaning compartment after I brought it home. Nice surprise). This one does have a "story". The rifle is an AC (Walther) but the stock is replaced (its a BLM with Durofol handguard). Assume it was battlefield replaced but as you note, I didn't "buy" the story. Paid a non-matching price. Can post this one as well if anyone is interested.

    Thanks again.....

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  10. #10
    ?

    Default

    Michael,
    No one one knows for sure how the matched mounts were separated from the G/K43's it could have happened a number of ways to numerous to speculate here. But they were originally issued serialized to the rifle with the same maker as the rifle and zeroed in before the rifle was issued. Any other way wouldn't make any sense. Many years back you could by the original mounts and scope for a small fraction of what they now cost as well as the G/K43. Many owner bought them and put them on their rifles to complete their rig. Similar to what owners are now doing with CMP M1D Garand's.
    As far as the mounts are concerned it is very common tho find an authentic mount married to a G/K43 as it is in your case. I carefully looked at the serial number and the placement of the Walther 359 waffen amt and it looks right to me but it it's hard to say with 100% accuracy unless it is seen in person under a 10X loop. But I'd say I am 99% sure it is a correct authentic mount with a correctly stamped serial number that would have been issued with a Walther G/K43.
    I can't say for certain but I would be surprised if mounts that were issued with different G/K43's weren't placed on other ones as the war took it's toll on both rifles scopes and mounts. In my 30 years of looking at G/K43 I have seen only 4, and they were in collections, that had genuine matching rilles and mounts. The scopes numbers were never matched to the mounts or rifles.
    How are the optics on your G43? Consider yourself fortunate if they are clear as most I have seen are somewhat cloudy. Another thing to look for is the rare of the receiver. G/K43's are over gassed and if they were fired a lot beat up the rear of the receiver so take a look at that. I do not shoot my AC 45 K43 any longer as parts breakage has been somewhat of a problem in the G/K43's and finding genuine parts is becoming difficult. There is a guy who goes by the moniker of Aplelfor who make a kit to reduce the over gassing of the G43 if you are interested. Even if I did find a part I would not have a matching rifle any longer.
    In closing I hope I have answered your questions. I strongly urge you to get a copy of "Hitler's Garand" it has a treasure trove of info on the G/K43 as well as the G41M and G41W.
    Last edited by samnev; 04-19-2014 at 06:22 PM.

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