Non-blued PPSh-41

[ToxicGas]

Deactivated, and dated 1943. I bought this from RytonArms, and I've seen another non-blued example previously posted on here by a member who also bought theirs from them. Other than that, I've never seen or heard of non-blued examples- is there any known explanation for this? My theory is that this is a product of rushed production, in order to get weapons out of the factories and into the hands of soldiers as fast as possible. Bluing seems like a part of the production process that they could afford to bypass, I assume it's only practical function was to prevent corrosion?
Can anyone tell me if this also adds/detracts value? I personally don't think it looks as nice as a blued example, but I didn't choose when purchasing.

I apologise for my poor photos, my camera's dying. Hopefully soon I'll have it fixed and put up some good pictures of my collection.

[Adrian Stevenson]

I too first saw these when the late Tony Budge first imported them. This finish appears to be "Parkerised": this is a anti rust finish which was more often used by US arms makers as an alternative to the more conventional blued finish. These chances are this might have been done at only one Soviet factory at a guess? I would be interested to see more examples and see if they all have the same markings on them.

You can read more about this type of finish here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkerizing

I don't think it adds or detracts to the value.

Cheers, Ade.

[GasMasksUK]

I've seen a few examples that havent been blued also, and almost ended up with one a couple of weeks ago, however I was offered a deal that I couldnt refuse It'll be interesting to find out why the blueing wasnt carried out, anyway how would you rate these as value for money? My latest interest is Russian small arms, and I havent got any submachine guns

Thanks

Danny

[ToxicGas]

Thanks for the info Ade! That finish type is new to me. I'd also be interested in seeing if markings on other examples link parkerised examples to one factory- I'll try and post detailed photos when possible. Perhaps others can help with gathering info.

Danny- did the offer involve gas masks? Speaking of which, I haven't added to my mask collection in months now, that has to change! And I definitely recommend getting one from RytonArms if you decide to start collecting Russian weaponry- In my opinion the price is good for such an interesting and iconic piece of history! They even have moving bolts and sling included, which is a nice touch. I got mine for christmas- unconventional, but the best present I've ever received!

-Mat

[GasMasksUK]

Danny- did the offer involve gas masks? Speaking of which, I haven't added to my mask collection in months now, that has to change! And I definitely recommend getting one from RytonArms if you decide to start collecting Russian weaponry- In my opinion the price is good for such an interesting and iconic piece of history! They even have moving bolts and sling included, which is a nice touch. I got mine for christmas- unconventional, but the best present I've ever received!

It didnt actually I've actually stopped collecting gas masks to fund other interests and for deactivated weapons. However the deal was for five more deacts, so my collection is going to grow quite a lot as soon as they arrive

Thanks

Danny

[Frayer]

Great piece .... белый Папашей!
Congratualtions!
:-)

Perhaps фосфатировать / phosphatized will help, as it is the term usually used vice "parkerized". It is a low temperature process, as otherwise the weldments (solderings) will be weakened.
Appears to have been done around 1960 - maybe for storage, maybe for export to high humididty locations (Angola, Mozambique, Indochine, etc.).
Other ideas mentioned : wartime shortage/rush, special for naval troops, done only in the Ukraine because here was phosphates, done at the time of deactivation, etc., etc.
Appears to be no consensus.

http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/fo...18/2118132.jpg
http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/fo...48/1448087.jpg
http://talks.guns.ru/forums/icons/fo...50/1450021.jpg
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum...50/1450011.jpg
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum...50/1450013.jpg

"Deactivation" - an horrid euphemism for damaging a piece of history.
And in some countries, the laws merely serve to increase the cost (someplaces including "informal" costs) of creating a security company/agency/dealership and getting the required permits to keep these surviving examples. So, fewer men (and today women, one supposes) are able to fully participate in this preservation of history.
OK, getting off the soap-box now.

- Frayer

[meyerse]

Does the PPSH have the typical soviet refurb markings on it out of curiosity?
You can also vary the color of parkerizing, it can be quite dark.

[ToxicGas]

Thanks Frayer- and yeah, if I could own these without the deactivation, I would! Though as much as I'd love to shoot these guns, it's the history and aesthetics that greatly interest me, and if this is a means of allowing us to have them, so be it. I've seen so many cases of valuable and rare WW2 weapon stocks just being scrapped. And also, I've heard many (predominantly Americans) referring to deactivation as 'butchering'- but they aren't without their crimes against history... I've seen WW2 dated Mosin Nagants cut up and modified for sport shooting- who would do that?
That wasn't an attack on anyone, just showing both sides of the story. Personally I wouldn't consider it as damaging a piece of history as long as the aesthetics remain more or less unchanged, though obviously it functioning would be nice too.

Meyerse- I can't remember right now and it's not here with me, but I shall check tomorrow. I know that all numbers match up however.

[meyerse]

While I think we can all agree that having them in their 'natural state' would be preferable, any PPSH entering the US at this point would be in BITS (and missing some important bits) and in far less 'historical condition' than this deactivated weapon. It is all a shame really. This is far preferable to the crusher.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Does the PPSH have the typical soviet refurb markings on it out of curiosity?
You can also vary the color of parkerizing, it can be quite dark.

These guns have all come out of the Ukrainian salt mine hoard and have, like all the other items there, been arsenal refurbished in the 1960's/1970's. I am certain they bear the usual refurb marks.

Cheers, Ade.