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Opinions please on this WW2 mongrel Italian/German gun!

Article about: Hello All, I got very cold and wet at a flea market today and I think it effected my brain! I picked up this carbine for 40 (For the US members thats quite a good price for a deactivated gu

  1. #1

    Default Opinions please on this WW2 mongrel Italian/German gun!

    Hello All,
    I got very cold and wet at a flea market today and I think it effected my brain! I picked up this carbine for 40 (For the US members thats quite a good price for a deactivated gun - even in this condition!).
    It was deactivated in 1997 and the certificate just states 'S/R, rifle, Beretta'.
    The seller said he had no history other than he believed that it was an Italian carbine with a Mauser stock. When he got it, it was covered in heavy grease or wax, especially on the fore grip, which he cleaned/wiped off. The gun absolutely stinks (smells of creosote) to the extent that I've had to use one of my WW2 plastic rifle slips to put it in because it was giving me a headache!!
    I recognised the 'action' (barrel,etc) to be a Carcano carbine and it's dated 1942.
    The stock looks like a cut down Mauser, however, I know that there are numerous variants. Does anybody recognise it or the markings?
    The stock and barrel appear to have been together for a very long time and there is no movement between the two, the poor condition of the stock and pitting on the barrel suggest that it was left for some time. The trigger guard/magazine, from what I assume is a Mauser, matches up with the bolt so it looks as if was able to fire once upon a time.
    So what do you think? A partisan or Volksstrum made piece? a post war 'sporterized' carbine? or have I got it all wrong and it's an Italian gun I've not recognised.

    P.S. Does anybody have any ideas about getting rid of the smell (other than sanding back he whole stock and soaking it in a bath of perfume) it is really, really, really strong!

  2. #2
    ian
    ian is offline
    ?

    Default Re: Opinions please on this WW2 mongrel Italian/German gun!

    white spirit will remove ,greese ,dirt and grime
    i would think it would deal with most of the smell as well
    but oil the metal parts after as the white spirit will clean all the oil of that as well
    good luck and let us know how you get on
    cheers ian

  3. #3

    Default Re: Opinions please on this WW2 mongrel Italian/German gun!

    I would think it's postwar made up as a wall hanger-the Mauser mag system wont feed for the Carcarno mechanism (which this is an M38 Short rifle example)-the Germans and post war the Italians did convert some Carcarnos to 7.92mm but these were just rechambered bored out standard rifles with the same stock and magazine mech (which made them single shot)-notice there appears to be no trigger-as I said a wallhanger not a shooter IMO.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Opinions please on this WW2 mongrel Italian/German gun!

    well its definatly a weird rifle we may never know who made it or why but it sure looks differnt

    tom

  5. #5

    Default Re: Opinions please on this WW2 mongrel Italian/German gun!

    You are correct there is no trigger, however there is evidence (marks to the inside of the stock) that a trigger was once in place, of course this could be from the original gun, although, as stated everything fits together very tightly. The mauser mag lines up with the bolt mechanism so in theory bullets could pass from the mag into the chamber. I appricate that there are certain tollerances involved but could it be a possibility that this could have fired? The reason I ask is that this is an unattractive piece! and the stock and barrel appear to have been together for some considerable time, the pitting to the barrel would suggest that it has been exposed to weather for quite a while. I know that people put stranger things on their walls but it seems odd that somebody made the decision to deactivate this beast in 1997 instead of trying to find an original stock for it.
    Does anybody have an idea as to how old the stock is?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Opinions please on this WW2 mongrel Italian/German gun!

    As you stated the mechanism is in poor shape-unlikely anyone would bother to put it into the correct stock in 1997-would assume the original Carcano stock was broken/in poor condition so someone restocked in a Mauser one but I don't think it was ever meant to shoot-that people do such things is illustrated by a recent thread here in which someone took a ground dug Dutch Mannlicher carbine mech and placed it into an M38 Carcano stock by error or by design for some reason known unto themselves. The components have been around for 70 years or so, so plenty of time for people to have monkeyed around with them (as you see on this site sometimes).

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