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Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

Article about: Did you get it for a reasonable price?-the only other one that has been featured on the site was one of Bill Grists-I don't think that there are very many 'deep' collectors of French weapons

  1. #1
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    Default Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    Some years ago when the first batch of Mosin Nagant's came in to J&G Sales. A few of us who were good friends with the Sales manager and General Manager were allowed to go in the back and pick out the MN of our choice. They had been sorted by type, rarity and condition. The better ones had a slightly higher price.
    After going through at least 50 MN I found this one. While it had the slashed box on the stock it did not look to me like the typical rework. All serial numbers were matching including the bayonet and stamped not electro penciled. The butt plate had been lined out and re-stamped The stock did not have any bumps bruises.
    I have been trying to determine if this is a Dragoon. The best information I have found suggests that it is.

    "Dragoons were upgraded to M91/30 specifications on a limited scale prior to WWII and on a massive scale after WWII. Because of the extensive refurbishment of practically all Mosin Nagants in the Soviet Union after WWII there is no way to be certain if a 1927 to 1932 rifle is an upgraded Dragoon or an original M91/30. However, odds are that the pre-1930 rifles are upgraded Dragoons, also known as ex-Dragoons, since they were the majority of production during that time. Conversely, odds are that 1930 and later rifles were originally built as M91/30s and are not upgraded Dragoons. Therefore any rifle made prior 1927 is certainly an ex-Dragoon and any rifle made after 1932 is certainly an original M91/30. This leaves the distinct possibility that a 1927 to 1929 dated rifle in M91/30 configuration is in fact a "prototype M91/30". As previously stated, the odds are against this and it should be considered unscrupulous, if not outright fraudulent, to describe a rifle in this manner. On the other hand, any rifle dated 1930 or later and in M91/30 configuration is certainly an M91/30 now regardless of whether it was originally built as one or as a Dragoon".

    Since so many on this site are expert in all matters Mosin Nagant I would appreciate any feedback. This is the nicest MN I have seen of the ones that have come in.
    Any information would be greatly appreciated.
    TIA,
    Sam







  2. #2

    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    It has the refurbishment marks on the wood stock and the receiver is marked with the Izhevsk 'bow and arrow' pre 1928 mark as well as the post 1928 Izhevsk 'hammer and sickle in a wreath'-production of the m/1891 long rifle largely ceased after 1922 in favor of the Dragoon model-trials production of m91/30s started in 1927 until general production in 1930-is there an arrow in the triangle on the side of the receiver?-that would be a post WW2 Izhevsk refurb mark.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    Lithgow,
    The only triangle is the one next to the wreath on the top of the receiver and is visible in the photo of the top of the receiver. It is a triangle with a 1 in it. No triangle with an arrow in it on either side of the receiver. I knew that the slashed boxed on the stock represented a refurb but I have read that many dragoons were updated. This rifle looked so different (almost new) from all the others we went thru which is why I selected it. So in your opinion do you think this is/was a dragoon.
    I really appreciate your help.
    Regards,
    Sam

  4. #4

    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    Triangle with a 1 in it is a East German(DDR) property mark

  5. #5

    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    Hi Sam,
    nice looking rifle i think you picked a good one, I have a lovely old 1917,MN same model as yours.
    dave.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    Thanks to Dave and Theotherhomer,
    So is or was it a Dragoon originally
    Regards,
    Sam

  7. #7

    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    As yours was made in 1923 it would have been a dragoon later remodelled as a m91/30-see the attached photo of my ex dragoon m91/30 made at Izhevsk in 1924. For some reason they are more common here than later round receiver models.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    Quote by lithgow View Post
    As yours was made in 1923 it would have been a dragoon later remodelled as a m91/30-see the attached photo of my ex dragoon m91/30 made at Izhevsk in 1924. For some reason they are more common here than later round receiver models.
    Tanks again, seems like I keep saying that as you are kind enough to answer my queries. I also found out through an advanced collector that you can tell if it was an ex Dragoon it would have a space under the rear sight as the contour of the sight base doesn't match that of the new barrel. Mine has the space mentioned. I am really happy with this Mosin Nagant.
    Cheers,
    Sam

  9. #9

    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    New news on the Mosin Nagant front-I have bought a new MN 91/30-I was after a round receiver model-made by Izhevsk in 1943 and apparently sent straight to store-unrefurbished and unshot after nearly 70 years direct from Eastern Europe (no US import marks)-stiill at the dealers so pics will be a couple of months away.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Opinions Wanted, Is this an MN 1891 Dragoon?

    Quote by lithgow View Post
    New news on the Mosin Nagant front-I have bought a new MN 91/30-I was after a round receiver model-made by Izhevsk in 1943 and apparently sent straight to store-unrefurbished and unshot after nearly 70 years direct from Eastern Europe (no US import marks)-stiill at the dealers so pics will be a couple of months away.
    Great find, I know the feeling when you find something you have been after a long time. I finally added a French 1907-15/M34 that is all matching and in VG+ condition with an excellent bore to my collection. It should arrive later this week.
    Cheers,
    Sam

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