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Savage No4 Mk1*

Article about: Hello gents, This is my Savage No4 Mk1*. These are pretty much the only markings on it apart from the odd square S here and there and the size of the butt stamped underneath in the woodwork.

  1. #1

    Default Savage No4 Mk1*

    Hello gents,

    This is my Savage No4 Mk1*.
    These are pretty much the only markings on it apart from the odd square S here and there and the size of the butt stamped underneath in the woodwork.
    Would I be right guessing the date at 1943 ish? as there is no date stamp and am only guessing from the serial number.
    Also does anyone know what the "B" under the serial number means as i have had no luck finding information on it anywhere.

    Thanks in advance.Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2

    Default

    Your rifle was produced for Great Britain by Savage Arms (as denoted by the square S) under the Lend-Lease program as evidenced by the "US Property" marking.

  3. #3

    Default

    Hello BillinVA, thanks very much for your reply,

    I did know it was a lend lease rifle but that is pretty much all I know about it! There is no date stamp,no unit markings (that I know of) just what is shown in the pictures.Would be nice to find a little bit of its history, but there is so little to go on maybe it will just stay an annonymous rifle.Not to worry.

    Thanks again.

  4. #4

    Default

    My info suggests as you believe that it's a 1943 built gun. The square S is in fact the logo for Stevens and really they should be called Sevens-Savage rifles rather than Savage rifles.

  5. #5

    Default

    Hi m3bobby thanks very much for your reply.

    Its nice to have another opinion on the date, so am happy with that. Thanks for pointing out also that the name is Stevens Savage not just Savage. Good stuff.

    Thanks again

  6. #6
    MAP
    MAP is offline
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    Default

    Quote by m3bobby View Post
    My info suggests as you believe that it's a 1943 built gun. The square S is in fact the logo for Stevens and really they should be called Sevens-Savage rifles rather than Savage rifles.
    Quote by centigas View Post
    Hi m3bobby thanks very much for your reply.

    Its nice to have another opinion on the date, so am happy with that. Thanks for pointing out also that the name is Stevens Savage not just Savage. Good stuff.

    Thanks again
    How did you determine the manufactures date? I have one of these as well.

    Interesting, never knew Stevens made these rifles. Did Savage also make them or just contracted them out to Stevens?

    I also heard that most were never shipped over. But not sure if that is true. Anyone know?

    Regards,

    Michael
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  7. #7

    Default

    Hi Michael,

    As far as the date goes it was more of a guess than anything,but the serial numbers were done sequentialy. If you take the "c" away from the number you have the actual number of your gun. In 1944 there were 5 numbers after the "c" instead of four. I forget know how many were actually made, but the higher the number but still 4 numbers the closer to 1944 you get. Hope I havent confused that too much! I will have a poke about and see if I can find the total number made.

    Also as far as Im aware these guns were only used by the British Army, so presume they were all sent, but wouldnt stick a hefty bet on it.

    Cheers.

  8. #8

    Default

    Just found this, and have found the answer to my own question!! Should have looked harder. The B under the serial number means it had been inspected by the British Army.
    Hope the other information helps too.


    Savage owned J Stevens Arms Co ( of Chicopee Falls, Mass ) won a contract to supply Britain with the No4 rifles due to the bombing of Birmingham reducing British output by 50% in early 1941 - add to this the loss of many small arms due to Dunkirk.

    Output from Savage began in late 1941 and lasted only 3 years compared to the Canadian Longbranch production which lasted into the 1950's. Very early North American production resulted in some No4 Mk1 rifles but the main body of output was the war expedient No4 Mk1* which made certain concessions to the No4 design such as the cut out in the receiver for modified bolt release vs the plunger styled bolt release of the typical No4 Mk1.

    Only the North American factories of Longbranch and Savage produced the No4 Mk1* rifle - when Savage closed its doors all spare parts were sent to Longbranch and it is due to this that some Longbranch No4's can be found with Savage marked parts. Savage rifles are generally marked U.S Property on the left receiver face, serial number is located on the left butt socket wrist with a letter prefix of C included - for example 96CXXXX would be typical; the C stands for Chicopee. Late war Savage No4 Mk1* rifles are nearly always without a year of manufacture, based on serial number surveys these are estimated as 1944 production.

    The first rifle contract was for 300,000 No4 rifles at a cost of $75 each and of the 96 parts required to complete the No4 rifle about 86 came from 30 parts sub contractors. Savage only produced the receiver, barrel, bolt, trigger guard, bolt head and stock and the entire package was assembled at Savage by them. Overall averaged output of Savage No4 rifles is placed at 1,196,706 and with 40,000 on lend lease to China.

    The first Savage Stevens No4 rifle was test fired on Friday, July 25th, 1941 at Chicopee Falls plant but the early rifles did not meet specifications and were sub standard - this was improved over time until production was at quality standard for export to Britain. Britain placed another order for 720,000 No4 Mk1* rifles in June 1942 including bayonets to run concurrent with the original order. Many pre Lend Lease U.S No4's were rejected by the British Inspectorate for various reasons of standards ... the later Lend Lease agreement reduced the British conditions of control and payment as these were now considered direct British Contract.

    Once the rifles entered England however the British still inspected them and marked them with a B beneath the serial numbers on the butt socket to indicate British standard of inspection and a pass based on same. Savage rifles are generally found to have a 2 groove barrel and all parts should be found with the square Savage S or standard S ... receivers or various parts carry the U.S Flaming Bomb ordnance proof as well.

    Recoil of all Enfield rifles sans the No5 is a pleasant push ... great to shoot and very comfortable as well as accurate. Surplus ammo is harder to find these days but factory ammo still readily available - or you can always roll your own.

  9. #9
    MAP
    MAP is offline
    ?

    Default

    Good Stuff. thanks!

    Have to update my database when I get home with this info. Try to detail each item I have so when I get hit by that bus, my wife/kids will know what they have :-)
    "Please", Thank You" and proper manners appreciated

    My greatest fear is that one day I will die and my wife will sell my guns for what I told her I paid for them

    "Don't tell me these are investments if you never intend to sell anything" (Quote: Wife)

  10. #10

    Default

    Stevens Savage production totalled 1.196,706 rifles and 40,000 sent as Lend Lease to China-the Chinese rifles may or may not be included in the first total number-first US made rifle was July 1941 and the last June 1944 and the contract was terminated 30.6.44 as Canadian and British production was sufficient for any further needs beyond what had already been made by all 3 countries. The 1 millionth US rifle was made May 1944 after which the serial no.s had 5 numerals after the 'C' instead of 4.

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