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The U.K. deactivation saga

Article about: First, I hope this is the right place! I realise this topic has been covered before, but I thought I'd post what I hope is an update on the current situation. As you may know, there is a cer

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    Default The U.K. deactivation saga

    First, I hope this is the right place! I realise this topic has been covered before, but I thought I'd post what I hope is an update on the current situation.

    As you may know, there is a certain retailer in the U.K. selling deacs (for want of a better term) with no U.K. proof house certificate/mark, but a self-issued certificate. I don't see a problem with this, but I thought I would try to find out a little more about it from the Home Office.

    Here is their reply:

    ...We do not comment on individual cases. However, I would reiterate that under section 8 of the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 a firearm has been deemed to have been deactivated if it bears a mark approved by the Secretary of State. By submitting the firearm to one of the two Proof Authorities, the item is inspected, certified and marked as no longer capable of discharging a lethal shot, projectile or missile and that it is not readily convertible.

    ...By not submitting the item to a Proof House, a person may risk prosecution on the basis of possessing a firearm without a valid certificate. In these circumstances it would be for the court to determine whether the person was guilty of any offence under the relevant Act.

    So it looks as if deactivation work that fails to meet current Home Office standards could be legitimate, along with non proof house deactivation certificates. As I mentioned above, I'm not knocking this, I'm just trying to establish what people are doing. I hope the retailer in question sets a precedent (and lowers their prices a bit )

    I'd be interested to hear opinions on this...

  2. #2
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    Hi , firstly as I understand the law on firearms deactivation, only home office approved armourers at a proof house can issue the certificates,which still relates to the section 8 act, however when these acts are written the legal parlance used invariably mentions 'may' which normally means you'' will '' be prosecuted in a court of law, dependant on the actions of the home office and the crown prosecution, who will no doubt pursue a conviction with determination. Most times the initial appearance in a court would be at magistrates whereby the clerk of the court basically guides the bench as to what the law says must happen and to the correct sentences available, in the cases of firearms offences there is very little leeway in light of past events and the strict guide lines set out ,so I would'nt put too much faith in the vain hope that a prosecution would'nt be the outcome.

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    Just stick to well known dealers who's items all carry the London or Birmingham proof marks that are stamped in several places on the gun and always issue a certificate,my understanding is that if you loose the certificate you can still own the gun but cannot transport it from your property to another with the risk of being stopped then those actions too you find yourself in deep water,anyone selling so-called firearms without the appropriate proof stamps and paperwork should be given a very wide berth.............
    With Regards Jake.

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    Just my opinion but as long as you have follows the gov guide lines for deactivation then it should be no probs, the dealer in question, are you on about Tenbury guns based in Birmingham? They have these German Deacs they are bring over, they are really like old spec guns, I thought of getting one of the M1 Carbines they have, very nice
    Last edited by Ben Evans; 11-04-2013 at 09:09 AM.
    Ben

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    Do not under any circumstances buy a DEAC without proof marks ! mere possession will get you 5 years at her majesty's pleasure ! no proof marks, no certificate = section 1 firearm w/o a licence...deep poo poo !
    The dealer converting/selling these wants locking up !
    How times have changed for you recent collectors, I remember when in the 70's you needed a licence to own any part of a firearm, i.e. trigger guard etc...............
    Prost ! Steve.
    "The German Army is the perfectly adapted, perfectly running Machine. The difference is that the Germans are organised with a view to War...with the cold, hard, practical and business-like purpose of winning victories."
    G.W. Steevens - The Daily Mail (1897)

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    Just so you know guys, all it takes is one asshat dealer to screw up a whole country's laws.

    As an outsider I find it very odd that most people with deacts, don't seem to know the laws regarding them, almost as if it was some mysterious grey area...

  7. #7

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    Hi everyone.......I have reproduced below an extract from the current Home Office guidelines for Police in the UK, this is the August 2013 revision.......read it carefully....there is no ambiguity...........if its not done by a proof house it aint legal......specifically note the phrase...

    'No other person has been approved for this purpose.

    Phil

    De-activated firearms
    2.16 Within the context of section 28 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, a ‘de-activated firearm’ means an imitation that consists of something which was a firearm but has been rendered incapable of discharging a shot, bullet, or other missile. Section 8 of the 1988 Act provides that, unless it can be shown otherwise, a firearm which has been de-activated to a standard approved by the Secretary of State, so that it is incapable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile, is presumed not to be a firearm within the meaning of the 1968 Act and therefore is not subject to control if it bears a mark approved by the Secretary of State for denoting that fact. The 1988 Act requires that one of the two Proof Houses or some other person approved by the Secretary of State has marked the firearm and certified in writing (that is, provided a certificate) that it has been de-activated to the approved standard. No other person has been approved for this purpose. With regard to section 38 (7) of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, a de-activated firearm is also to be treated as an imitation firearm, and by virtue of section 40 can only be bought by or sold to someone aged 18 or over.

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    Doesn't this mean the deactivation can be carried out and certified by someone other than the two Proof Houses as long as they are approved by the SoS?..

    "...or some other person approved by the Secretary of State has marked the firearm and certified in writing (that is, provided a certificate) that it has been de-activated to the approved standard."

    Maybe the seller in Question has such SoS approval? Or is this clause worded should a third or more Proof House be set up in the future thus avoiding amending the legislation at a later date.
    I collect, therefore I am.

    Nothing in science can explain how consciousness arose from matter.

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    Quote by 4thskorpion View Post
    Doesn't this mean the deactivation can be carried out and certified by someone other than the two Proof Houses as long as they are approved by the SoS?..

    "...or some other person approved by the Secretary of State has marked the firearm and certified in writing (that is, provided a certificate) that it has been de-activated to the approved standard."

    Maybe the seller in Question has such SoS approval? Or is this clause worded should a third or more Proof House be set up in the future thus avoiding amending the legislation at a later date.
    I admit that the wording would seem to suggest that.........however as far as I am aware only the London and Birmingham proof houses are currently authorised to carry out and certificate deactivation of firearms....can anyone really believe that this work would be sub contracted out to anyone who considers themselves 'a bit handy with a grinder and a welding kit' ?............given how tight UK firearms laws are currently then the government are going to keep this work in house and that is how I imagine it will stay.......If anyone knows of somebody who IS authorised by the SoState then please share the info with us all...........

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    What would the "other person" mark the gun with? I doubt they would be assigned a C.I.P.-recognised mark unless the Home Office have decided to open up the proof franchise. I suppose it's possible Tenbury have been recognised as another proof house, I wonder if the other dealers are thinking of doing the same thing?

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