Austrian M17 helmet as used by the Finnish Army

**dastier** · 12-26-2011, 09:13 PM

If anyone can provide info on the liner and chin strap that would be most appreciated. I'd like to know if the liner is indeed Finnish or original to the Austrian shell and possibly the date of manufacture. (ie WW1, preWW2, WW2, or post WW2) Same for the chin strap. (I'm pretty sure its not Austrian) Thanks.

Austrian M17 helmet as used by the Finnish Army

**Greg Pickersgill** · 12-27-2011, 12:36 PM

I know next to nothing about these helmets, but this webpage may offer some small assistance -

The use of the German WW1 helmet by the Finnish Army

**dastier** · 12-28-2011, 10:37 PM

Thanks for the help Greg. I'll check the site.

**AlecH** · 12-29-2011, 09:48 AM

Dastier,
I'm fairly certain the chin strap is not Austrian. I believe all Stahlhelmets used by the Austrian army had webbing type straps not leather, whether manufactured in Germany or Austria the straps were always webbing type.
Regards

**dastier** · 12-29-2011, 06:55 PM

Yes I agree. To the best of my knowledge the Austrian chin straps were made from a cloth material.

IMHO What's unique about the chin strap on my helmet is that it is one piece strap looped through the bale then sewn together, then looped through the other bale and back through the buckle for adjustment. The buckle is missing its post. I'm hoping someone will identify the strap as Finnish or otherwise by this method of attachment.

The seller indicated that this was a Finnish Army helmet. From Jukka Juutilainen's site on the use of WW1 helmets by the Finnish Army, the Finns purchased 35,000 helmets from Germany in 1922. These were taken out of service after WW2 and put into storage. Not all liners were replaced. My thoughts are that this is a liner from the interwar period, possibly an original WW1 liner, though it differs from Austrian WW1 liners I have seen. It differs from the 1950s Finnish liners. It has been refurbished - it has stainless steel rivets in two places affixing the liner to the shell.

**oradour** · 12-29-2011, 08:06 PM

by AlecH

I believe all Stahlhelmets used by the Austrian army had webbing type straps not leather, whether manufactured in Germany or Austria the straps were always webbing type.Regards

Gents....The M16 German made helmets supplied to the KuK by Imperial Germany, were to German specifications, and had M91 chinstrap mounts and Pickelhaube type leather chinstraps...only Austro-Hungarian made steel helmets had the webbing/cloth straps......
Prost ! Steve

**Greg Pickersgill** · 12-29-2011, 10:21 PM

This is well out of my usual post-WW2 area of interest and knowledge, but I'm quite intrigued. I've found a number of illustrations of Finnish depot reworks of this helmet and so far *none* are particularly similar, never mind identical. The liner pads do seem genereric for the type though, but in every instance I have seen so far the depot reworks have them mounted on a leather rather than metal band, and while the straps have some characteristics in common with yours they do not appear to have that distinctive long loop. It might simply be that this is indeed a Finnish depot rework but just done differently - maybe a small batch by a particular fitter or team, perhaps. No sign of an artisanal signature?!?!

**AlecH** · 12-29-2011, 10:22 PM

Steve,
I took the information from Ludwig Baers book on Helmets from Austria. On the picture - Bild 9 Future Replacement Chin Strap for German produced Stahlhelmets.

Bild 10, 11, shows two types of chin strap to be used in home produced Stahlhelmets.

I wonder, if the German helmets were delivered with leather straps, then changed to the webbing type before being issued to the Austrian army, which would seem the easiest method to adopt.
Regards

**oradour** · 12-29-2011, 11:13 PM

Alec, it seems just so...it is the only book I do not possess ! I know the webbing (top) was sometimes used on the Pickelhaube by German forces......
Prost ! Steve.

**dastier** · 12-30-2011, 03:04 AM

Greg - as you mentioned this is outside your area you may not be aware of this: the metal band is what makes my helmet a M17. M16 have leather retaining bands. M16s upgraded to metal retaining bands during WW1 are called M17s to distinguish them from M16 helmets.

The 'pillows' are similar to WW1 'pillows' and could be leather tanned with a vegetable process and hence not white. (The Germans changed their method of tanning leather during WW1 to increase resistance to rot.) But the cut is a little different from WW1 German and Austrian 'pillows' plus they appear to have reinforcing rings in the string holes which I have not seen on WW1 German or Austrian liners.

If you go to Jukka Juutilainen's site The use of the German WW1 helmet by the Finnish Army and go to the picture gallery, the photo of 'BI232 inside' shows a one piece strap that appears to be sewn together similarly but not quite like the chin strap on my Finnish Austrian M17. BI232 is identified earlier on the site as being a M16 that was used in WW2 and bought from the helmet user's family.

I posted this question on Gunboards and one opinion is that this is a Finnish liner and chin strap but was not a complete rebuild. However no timeline was offered which is what I'm trying to determine. Ignore the stainless steel rivets holding the liner to the shell. I believe those came later. I am still of the opinion that this liner and chin strap are possibly an interwar or WW2 Finnish liner that did not require a postwar rebuild.