This Danish M23/41

**OsiusGaming** · 07-19-2018, 03:56 AM

I saw this Danish helmet online for sale and I have a couple of questions about it.
First off, the seller has it listed as a m23 but it seems more like the m23/41 variant seeing as how it doesn't have the hole in the front that was used for the emblem. Weren't these types of helmets suppose to be used for the police/civil defense?
Also, is this liner and paint original to the ww2 helmet and not postwar/reproduction? I have seen this color before but not on the 8 flap liners- which I thought were in the black helmets.
Thanks in advance guys, and sorry that I keep starting these open ended threads. Just trying to train my eyes for spotting reproductions while getting outsider advice.

**Greg Pickersgill** · 07-19-2018, 11:15 AM

Amazingly I have one of these (or very like it) on my desk at the moment. I t is definately an M41. The liner and chinstrap are different (liner is simpler, just eight lobes with no individual pads, and the chinstrap is a slip buckle rather than the claw type on yours) but the colour of the shell is identical, and is of some age. Also, inside the shell is a stamping of 'B&W 133', and no, I don't know what it means!

I don't know at which point we can reasonably think 'reproduction' rather than refit and refurbishment. A lot of these Danish helmets (both M23 and M41) went through long service lives with many changes. Obviously there is an 'original' out of the factory form, and yours may be closer to it than mine even though your liner looks very clean, but they are pretty uncommon now. What I mean, I suppose, is what do we mean by 'authentic'!?!?!

**Ullergaard** · 07-19-2018, 11:49 AM

Hello.

Normally you should find a metal tag inside the liner with the manufacterer Glud & Marstrand..
And you are right it should have the hole front side if it should be the ww2 combat type... most likely this is the m1941 civilian type.. that was produced in unknown numbers..

Best regards
Lt. Col
Ullergaard

**Composite** · 07-19-2018, 04:17 PM

...now I'M confused...this one's CD-used right?

...everything about it says low quality not-for-combat.......right?

**OsiusGaming** · 07-19-2018, 04:37 PM

Yes, that one is civil defense, I believe, composite. But I can only come to that conclusion based on 3 things: the color, liner, and front plaque.
Color: most civil defense helmets were issued in black and grey colors, while the military ones were more khaki.
Liner: I have heard that the civil defense helmets had liners with 6 and sometimes 7 flaps on the inside. Yours has 6 flaps (I don't know if there is a better word for what these flaps are called. If there is one, please let me know.
Plaque: on all military helmets, there was a plaque/crest of some sort attached to the front. Civil defense helmets did not have these. You could also tell if the crest was removed from a military helmets by seeing a whole in the front. Later, however, the plaque was switched out for a bigger nut where the crest should be.

Also on a side note, helmets later determined for civil defense use had liners with 8 flaps in them, but also had a CF on the liner.

Now all of this in mind leaves to my confusion about the helmet I have shown. It had no plaque and no hole- meaning civil defense. But the color is not black and the liner has 8 flaps but no CF on it.

**Composite** · 07-19-2018, 04:39 PM

...but yours look mint mate...it's gotta have had a refurb job right?

**OsiusGaming** · 07-19-2018, 04:41 PM

Google Translate

Here is one of the websites I used to make all my assumptions. If I have made a mistake in my understanding of these helmets, please let me know. These helmets are just kind of hard to find info on. Thanks again!

**OsiusGaming** · 07-19-2018, 04:45 PM

I mean, I can't see how it wouldn't have had a refurbished paint job with how crisp that looks. But the whole liner thing is throwing me off, maybe I am just over thinking/looking too much into it. Who knows, the auction of this ends Friday I believe, and if I win it, I will have more pictures to post with a picture of the inside of the liner.

**OsiusGaming** · 07-19-2018, 04:48 PM

Ullergard, somehow I did not see your post. You are probably right

**Greg Pickersgill** · 07-19-2018, 06:16 PM

As for reference websites, also try World War Helmets - Reference de casques de 1915 a nos jours.. The WWH site is very reliable.

Composite's helmet is exactly the same as my own CD-issue M41, and I am fairly certainwe both have refurbished helmets, but done some time back. It would be unwise to assume that every M23 or M41 is going to conform to an expected pattern. Obviously if you have one either factory or QM fresh it will be the same as the other hundred, but over the years changes happened. Remember we are over 70 years away from these being factory fresh - have you seen the ones with Riddel liners and rough-finish grey paint yet?

A genuine original M23 may be immediately obvious by the really high asking price.