English Civil War Triple Bar Helmet

[Tango]

Cheers Guys....I think I will give this one a miss it all sounds too much like a minefield..to be spending good money on!! If it had a better history & we knew more I would but at the moment..I know nothing of it's history...So I will go looking at other stuff like you do lol. Cheers Terry.

[William1]

Hi all. I found this topic when searching for 17th century armour (which I've collected, among other things, for nearly 30 years) and joined because I felt this piece is getting a raw deal! Yes I know what you'll all be thinking now, but I have NO connection with the seller. This helmet has been on a dealer's site for quite a while and it's correct, in fact even the earflaps are probably right. It's a bit of a dog though, and the one thing that's really hard to fix neatly is a broken visor pivot like this one has, but it isn't a Victorian copy. Victorian armourers copied things like Maximilian armours and close helmets. They wouldn't have bothered to copy munition armour like this, which was very cheap until the mid 20th C.

I very much doubt this seller is associated with the Notts dealer referred to earlier, in fact I imagine he'd be horrified at the connection. Regarding the Notts dealer, I know exactly who you mean and I share your opinion. Which is all I'm going to say here.

With prices high, there are plenty of fakes around, some extremely well made. Armour has become a real minefield for novice collectors. Trident Arms (a very different sort of Notts dealer) has a copy for sale on his website, sold openly as a copy, which is the only triple-bar copy I've seen so far and worth a look at for instructional purposes. The most obvious feature is the tail in 3 parts (English munition 3-bars were made with the tail in one piece) and the overly-high comb. At least one other dealer is selling one of these copies as original. I'd like to be able to point out easy ways of telling real from fake, but regrettably there aren't any, just painfully-bought experience. The single bar helmets have also been copied, and as for medieval swords, I'm really glad I don't collect them as the subject has become a total nightmare, with fakes from Eastern Europe made with original medieval metal from ancient farm tools.

[edited for clarity]

[ruddersrangers44]

Welcome Will,so this is the real McCoy then?I luv these pots,a real part of English history.....were these British made ones issued to both sides or was that the single Bar Dutch made type?just try and imagine Cromwell and his Iron cavalry charging wearing these 3 bar pots with there mortuary swords in hand,must have been an awesome site,thanks for your input.............Jake.

[William1]

Jake

Yes, it's real and I always think a tatty example of the real thing beats the finest repro. These pots are great, iconic pieces of British history. If you just wanted a genuine example and could get the price down a bit, this one would do. Most collectors would be put off by the ugly repairs to the visor pivot, and if I wanted it I would try to negotiate. With £300 off the asking price, it would be quite a good deal and make a great display piece. What these pictures don't show is the mark of the London Armourers Company, which is visible on the dealer's website. I would date this helmet at about 1650-55. Most of the triple-bars you see are from this date or later - not many of the earlier ones seem to have survived.

It is sort of correct about the different sides wearing different types of helmet, as Parliament had control of the armouries in London and Hull and the workshops in London, so the King had to buy arms and armour from the continent. However some families with prewar private armouries sided with the King, and the dead and prisoners would be stripped of their arms, so these must have got mixed up.

W.

[ruddersrangers44]

Thanks Will....cannot find the price in this thread so with £300 off whats the asking price please?............Jake.

[arrestingu]

..curious which dealers listed this ..is there other pics ...steve

[William1]

It's up for £1495. Not sure if it's appropriate for me to name the dealer here before the original poster's had a chance to rethink!

[arrestingu]

...not that much of a bargain then !!! ...thats ok ....just wondered.
cheers steve

[Tango]

William1.. it is no problems naming the dealer..as I can't really afford it this month!!. Better it goes somewhere else to a loving home!!!. Cheers Terry.

[William1]

Ok guys, it is with "Chris Johnson's". TBH I don't think £1200 would be a bad price, as a decent one with real earflaps is upwards of 2K these days, and a really, really nice one is getting on for £3K, if you can find one. But each to their own!