M1 clones for Identification please

[plumbob]

Hi guys
Since we are on a M1 clone theme. Some nice helmets shown on here lately by the way.
Here is couple I have that I have picked up that I could do with positive identification if you don’t mind please.
The first one is one piece and I think it is Austrian (no markings)
The second one is two part and looks a bit like James M1975
Collecting these could be the way to go as they are far cheaper than WW2 helmets. I haven’t quite made my mind up yet.
As always any help is appreciated.
Rod

[Greg Pickersgill]

Well, I'm a big enthusiast of the European postWW2 helmets (have I mentioned this before?) so I'd certainly encourage others along the same line. Go for it. They are cheaper, that's true, but not necessarily easier to get. It took me a long time to get a real original version Austrian Stahlhelm 1 / M58.

Anyway, your helmet is Austrian, as you guessed. It is the second version of the Austrian-made M1 clone. Unexpectedly it is officially known as 'Stahlhelm 1' or the M75. the earlier version is the 'Stahlhelm 2' or M58. I have no idea why this is so, but it is. There are usually some marking somewhere in either the shell or liner - but then again some examples have several marks or stampings, others have none.

There's more to the Austrian helmets than first appears; on the surface there are the two types, but in-service modifications make it more than that.

[plumbob]

Thanks Greg I think you have mentioned somewhere you are a wee bit of a fan of m1 clones lol.
Thanks for your input very interesting.
What about the first one mate (the one piece one) have you any ideas what it is. Or are they both Austrian.
I picked these up at boot sales a bit of impulse buying on my part but i like them.
They have no markings on them at all apart from a liner size on one.
Thanks again
Rod

[Greg Pickersgill]

Oh, sorry, not paying enough attention. I just got back (well, yesterday) from the War and Peace show and I'm not completely alert yet. Its a damned long way from West Wales to Kent and back.

Anyway, your other helmet is a good thing, and not that easy to find so good luck. Its the first version of the West German Bundeswehr one-piece helmet with the original two-piece chinstrap. This is the real original M1A1 model of the late 1950s. There are two slightly different versions of this, with two slightly different liners, one with holes in the lobes (made by Schuberth) and one without, as yours is, made by Romer. So, there's another one to look for for a start!

The War and Peace show was a bit of a dead loss for helmets - I got a couple but they were only just sort of interesting (and cheap) rather than exciting. And I wasn;t being overly-fussy either; its incredible that so many trade stalls have so little helmet-wise except for German WW2/Third Reich M35 family. Dull dull dull. And expensive; didn't someone once theorise that the more of anything there are the cheaper they should be? Doesn't work with TR helmets, I can tell you. Rare? Hah!

[James C]

very nice examples rod i think greg has hit the nail on the head with these two beauties ,nice finds and keep up the good work ,james

[plumbob]

Thanks again Greg
I wasn,t sure if it was german or Austrian. I does have someone’s name on in it looks like Stabsarzt with “und Reservist” must have been like the TA.
Sorry to bug you a little more but how long were these in use for?
Lucky you getting to the show its even further for me. One of my mates goes there every year from here he said the B&Bs seem to be a bit more expensive this year,
One of the stalls last year sold him a genuine WW2 M1 for 150 notes, when he showed me it, it was a US rubbed down swivel bale front seam shell with repo chinstraps and a European resin clone liner. He took the news better than what i thought. He knows more about his trucks than helmets.
I would get hung from her indoors if i bought a TR helmet they are a bit expensive for me to. I am
still hoping to find one while I’m up in someone’s attic fixing there ballcock sometime with luck.
Thanks James I’ve be meaning to post them for a while now so i could find out what they are.
All the best
Rod

[Greg Pickersgill]

The original M1A1 (or M58) was introduced in 1958/69, but was quickly superceded my the M1A1 (or M60) modifiziert version which has a different I60 liner, the one held by the threaded spike in the dome. The thing is that these original helmet shells continued in general use but many were modified to take the new liner, and you will find, if you are fortunate, shells with the crown-held I60 liner with blank rivets which would have held the liner you have in your original. It took me a long time to grasp this, but it seems that these shells were continually upgraded, even though there were new models being made at the same time. So while it is possible your helmet was stacked for reserve or something and not modified it is equally possible that it carried on as it is in service until the early 1990s. Amazing, really.

[oradour]

Rod, a super first version M60 with solid liner fingers, these helmets first appeared in 1958. I do not have one in my collection, only the second version with perforated liner fingers, a great find, I would love to have in my collection. Greg are you getting a little confused here...the M60 (the helmet shown above) was superceded by the M62 (the helmet with the threaded nut in the dome), and the "Modifiziert" version started in 1981 thro to 1985........Rod, every male at 17 yrs was conscripted into the BW upto last year when it was stopped, no TA in Germany, after initial service you were placed on the Reserve list until the age of 45yrs....up till then you served some time each year supporting your Division/Battalion, you kept most of your uniform/equipment until you were discharged for good. Your helmet belonged to a "Stabsarzt" a medical Officer, with the rank of a Hauptmann (Captain)
I show the two versions of the M60 (member Battlegear's collection) , the difference in liner set up is obvious, disregard the helmet cover.
Prost ! Steve.

[plumbob]

Guys what can i say but thanks.
Some very good information that i certainly didn’t know.
Theres no way I would have thought this helmet might be 50 years old, I might have given it a guess at 10 years. Everything looks that new, the leather is very soft, the cork washers look like they were made yesterday, the sand texture paint is 99% intact. It must have been well stored and hardly used.
If i came across a helmet 20 years older ww2 era with a liner like this it would be screaming repo at me.
Steve I never even thought about translating that word, I thought it was a name. You had me puzzled how you knew the owner was a captain until I googled it thanks.
Best regards
Rod