Medieval helmet (?) in indonesia

[feldgrau33]

Missed thise thread some how!
But to me your helmet is a French 19 th century copy, made for decoration, parades and other purpose.
Maker's name escapes me at the moment!
Quiet collectible items they are!
cheers
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19th century copy? Do you know the difference between the original made, the 19th century replica and the modern replica?

Violet-Le -Duc is the makers name!
cheers
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Thank you.
Do you know where to find the maker stamp? Because i don't find any in this helmet.

[stuka f]

Hey,
originals, would be thikker, rivets would have been hand made and all different sizes and finition, the crest would be higher and general finition would be so different from later copy's.You would also have impurity's in the steel (crack's, dents,etc...)as steel was usualy localy made most of all by the maker of the helmet.
19 th century copy's are partialy forged as well, but made out of thinner and industrial made steel, rivets would be all the same size and finition.
Modern copy's are also made of thin industrial steel not forged but pleat, you can feel tension on pleated parts, if undone of rivets it would come back in it original form (more or les!!), mostly made out of two halfs and weld.
Viollet -le- Duc didn't made it him self, he was a 19 th century succesful restorer who went very far in his restorations, he had like a factory in France with hunderds of employes who copied furniture, stonwear, armor and weapons and so on. Nothing was labeld or signed.
Even old original helmets are seldom signed or marked by the buider, execept for later cabbassets (type of helmet).
Also the higher the crest the older your helmet is! Peolpe where short and they did everthing to look big, so a high crest was one of the solutions.
Cheers
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[MrMosel]

No offense but this may have been the wrong forum to post said topic on. But best of luck with the helmet!

[stuka f]

Now that I have a chance to ask, were medieval helmets like this worn in such a way that the helmet rested on the shoulderplates of the soldier so their head would be surrounded by the helmet, but not touching the insides of it? Or did they have any padding inside so that it could be worn like many modern helmets today, to allow the person to rotate their head?

Thise kind of helmet, did have a inner padding that was attached to the helmet, mostly made of a sort of canvas filled with dryed seaweed (algues) or horse hair.
That "liner" was sewed in the helmet to a thicker canvas ribbon, that was held by rivets on to the helmet.
I did have a 16 th century German city guard morion with its original padding, extremly rare to find! If only I had kept that one!
cheers
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[stuka f]

No offense but this may have been the wrong forum to post said topic on. But best of luck with the helmet!

I think it is all right here, where would you sugest to put thise thread?
Kris

[feldgrau33]

Hey,
originals, would be thikker, rivets would have been hand made and all different sizes and finition, the crest would be higher and general finition would be so different from later copy's.You would also have impurity's in the steel (crack's, dents,etc...)as steel was usualy localy made most of all by the maker of the helmet.
19 th century copy's are partialy forged as well, but made out of thinner and industrial made steel, rivets would be all the same size and finition.
Modern copy's are also made of thin industrial steel not forged but pleat, you can feel tension on pleated parts, if undone of rivets it would come back in it original form (more or les!!), mostly made out of two halfs and weld.
Viollet -le- Duc didn't made it him self, he was a 19 th century succesful restorer who went very far in his restorations, he had like a factory in France with hunderds of employes who copied furniture, stonwear, armor and weapons and so on. Nothing was labeld or signed.
Even old original helmets are seldom signed or marked by the buider, execept for later cabbassets (type of helmet).
Also the higher the crest the older your helmet is! Peolpe where short and they did everthing to look big, so a high crest was one of the solutions.
Cheers
|

Thank you!

[Larry C]

Great thread I had the pleasure of meeting Feldgrau33 and to view his collection while my recent visit to Indonesia in October.
I am in the process of writing a thread of my visit during my stay there and the meeting I had with Mr. Timur.

I see no reason to move this thread as it has gained 4 pages of replies.

Regards Larry

[bghomofaber]

ehe, sorry for some necromancy, a telltale sign of a replica is the precisely cut steel sheet manifacture.

The visor is too geometric, the skull is perfectly stampetd, while medieval helms and later renaissance open field helms (this replica's intendend style) were made by hot raising the skull on a special kind of anvil, hammer blow after hammer blow, in a circular fashion.

The exterior was then polished and sometime burnished and also more rarely gilt in various manners.

Or the best parade examples could be embossed with mythological scenes (extremely rare, stuff for princes and kings).

A weight around 3 kg could be typical, in any case a replica will not have differentiated thickness in critical parts (visor point was thicker usually in order to withstand a spear blow).

Obviously functional replicas made in an authentic manner on proper stakes with proper raising hamemrs will replicate such features, costing accordingly.

But pre bessemer metal would still be very different when analyzed

[feldgrau33]

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Really appreciate it.