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Stahlhelm in East Indies

Article about: Hello i'm timur from indonesia, in the past 3 months i manage to bought this 2 stahlhelm from the antique dealers in here. The green stahlhelm was from my hometown of Solo and the orange-red

  1. #1

    Default Stahlhelm in East Indies

    Hello i'm timur from indonesia, in the past 3 months i manage to bought this 2 stahlhelm from the antique dealers in here. The green stahlhelm was from my hometown of Solo and the orange-red one was from Temanggung. Both city in the central java.
    The green stahlhelm got a different shape of rivet compared with the original m35 stahlhelm. And the paint is like paste.
    The orange-red stahlhelm had a number "112" in yellow color on the rear of the helmet. Inside the helmet there's a writing "I IV F E". And the liner ring is smaller than the helmet itself.
    Both helmet doesn't have any stamp marking or even decals.
    I got info that in pre-ww2, the dutch east indies acquired stahlhelm from the chinese and the batavian government even make these stahlhelm in the factory in surabaya east java.
    So can anyone help me solving this east indies stahlhelm? Especially for the orange-red stahlhelm, from what unit this stahlhelm originated.
    Thank you for the advance.

    PS: i'm sorry for the attachments. I don't know how to put it on the right order.
    Attached Images Attached Images              

  2. #2
    ?

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    welcome to the forum feldgrau33 Just a thought on the green grey stahlhelm it would appear that the green one has been repainted not so long ago as the exterior of the shell looks to be in better condition than the interior were there is paint left. Any ideal what has happened to this helmet As it would appear some one has tried to strip the paint off.

    Regards Mark k

  3. #3

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    Thank you Mark for the explanation. The external paint is really thick and i don't know much of it's history.
    Here the larger image of the paint.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    Hi there Feldgrau, I definately don't think the Green one is of German origin i think your explanation of the Chinese Batavian connection sounds more right to me, and i would assume the paint loss is due to someone hammering out the dents in the top of the dome.

    Regards Phill

  5. #5

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    Thank you for your opinion phill.

  6. #6
    ?

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    I've been reading this forum some time now, and finally got around to joining.

    According to the information I have, the helmet shown is a Braats-Soerabaja (Surubaya), manfactured after Germany invaded the Netherlands, in the Braats factory in Surubaya. It is a copy of the German M35, but weighing around 500g. It was used by local Civil and Air Defence units. I think these are quite rare helmets. They have always intersted me how a German style helmet was used in a Dutch colony, I'm not sure I believe that these were helmets sent by Britain after victories against the Africa Korps in North Africa, I don't think the dates add up.
    There is a difference between the rivet types, but that could be just local supply or even relate to different linner sizes.

    Below is a link to a dealer website which shows the same helmet (I guess the dealer you purchased from), this has some links to some good photos of this helmet in use.

    East Indies Stahlhelm by ~finalverdict on deviantART

    I don't believe that these are the 'Hong-Kong' Chineese manufcatured helmet used in Indonesia, they are more the style of the German M34 helmet with square cornered rim. Shown in the "Captured Indonesian guerillas wearing stahlhelm" from the link above.

    Some closer pictures of the liner band and the inside of the air vents (rivets with the holes) would be interesting.

    Nice finds.
    Steve.
    Last edited by Tinhat; 11-07-2011 at 01:23 AM. Reason: typo

  7. #7

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    Thank you for the info steve, but for the truth is the author in that deviantArt is myself.
    Do you mean like these ones sir? Below is from the green stahlhelm. And this helmet doesn't have any liner again.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    And this is the orange-red stahlhelm. As you can see, the liner ring is smaller than the diameter of the helmet.
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    Name:  KNIL afwijkend model (via Koos).jpg
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    Hello Feldgrau,

    These helmets are a mistery to collectors in Holland. I have never held one nor have been able to eye ball one thorougly, alas.

    You would do us a great favor to measure and weigh these helmets.

    The general opnion is that Braat, Soerabaja produced helmets after the Dutch KNIL pattern. These helmets were easier to produce than the german model. It is not logical to start up a production line for a non standard helmet.

    The M35 and M34 clones probably came from China. After the occupation of The Netherlands proper, the colonial government acquired arms and equipment wherever it could be obtained. I know it for a fact that Mauser C96 pistols (Pistool M) were bought in Hong Kong. It is very likely that more equipment was procured in China.

    The Chinese connection seems all the more likely, since there were two models in use in the former NEI. It is highly unlikely that two different models; M34 and M35 were produced in a country so strapped for production facilities. The Chinese were producing these helmets at the time.

    As far as I know the Dutch Army Museum (Legermuseum) has only a M34 (see photo above)in it's collection. Sources (J.P.Struye) state that the M35 clone (approx 500 grams, as said by Tinhat) had a tan colour and a three flap liner, not the elaborate German M32 liner. But by lack of examples anything might be possible, as shows your orange coloured M35, clearly a well copied M31 liner.

    You have some very desirable helmets, Feldgrau! Congratulations! Do us a favor and give us some measurements etc?!

    Cheers,
    Emile
    Last edited by emileverbunt; 11-07-2011 at 10:38 AM. Reason: adding photo

  10. #10

    Default Re: Stahlhelm in East Indies

    Thank you sir, i guess there's still some mystery shrouding stahlhelm in east indies.
    The measurement:
    The green stahlhelm got length of 29.3 cm, width 23.3 cm and height 14.8 cm.
    The orange stahlhelm got length of 28.5 cm, width 23.5 cm and height 14.5 cm.
    The weight, the green one approximately 1.3 kg.
    The orange one is approximately more than 1.5 kg.
    Thank you again sir! I'm extremely lucky to have such helmets.
    But the knil helmet i got below have 500 grams of weight. Is this braat made helmet?
    Click to enlarge the picture Click to enlarge the picture Click image for larger version. 

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